http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product.phtml?p=1471&large=1

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Kent

'68 Falcon wagon stock 289/C4
'68 Falcon wagon 200-6/C4
'65 Fairlane 500 wagon 10.5:1 351W/C4
'78 Fairmont wagon 10.5:1 302/C4
'76 Pinto wagon 392 stroker
'01 Focus SE DOHC 2.0L/Auto
'04 Explorer XLT 4.6 3.73 trac lock/5sp Auto

Pinto Wagon 392W 14.5:1, cast iron Pro Topline 64/215s home ported to 237cc, angle milled to 52.5cc, 2.08/1.60, ported Super Victor, 302 KB 116 hypereutectic pistons .200" dome, 1.72 rockers, Isky mild street grind solid roller(290/300 adv, 256/266 at .050", .650" net lift, 108LSA/108 ICL), Crane Pro Series solid roller lifters, 9375 1050 Dominator, Victor water pump, billet 9 key timing set, custom headers with 1 7/8" X 36" long primaries, 3.5" H-pipe and Hooker Aero Chamber mufflers, C4 w/9" 6000 stall, 4.30 gears, 28/10.5/15 MT ET Drags, 3200#s w/o driver and Street legal.

I'm using a Edelbrock RPM head on a 393 presently.
If you don't mind I would like to pick your brain on port work for these heads.

Thanks,Scott

Current head is World SR. last time at the track is 60ft = 1.782 , 330 = 5.022 , 1/8 = 7.786 at 88.79 mph , 1000 = 10.189 , 1/4 is 12.236 at 110.06 MPH. This was 1 of 2 run running BFG drag radail for the very first time. 2nd run was 12.242 at 109.65 (I drop 2 degree from timing)

cam dur- int-236 ext-242
lift .555 .534
110 lobe

408W, 700DP, C4-3200 stall, 3.89 gear, dish piston, perform RPM, 2.5 exhaust with headers. BFG drag radial, MSD dist/ MSD 6A

thank for any advice

quote:

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Originally posted by 89_coupe:
It looks like with traction you should be around a 6.50 flat right now with that 105 MPH so only dropping 3-4 tenths should not require a different shortblock. The PT 215s milled down flat .075"-.100" or angle milled .100"-.110" after doing chamber work will get them down to 46-52ccs and the port cross section and port shape is great as cast for the high piston speeds of a 392 at 7500rpms with little port work(basic cleanup). Just bolting on a set of these will bump your RPM shift point up 500-800RPMs over the Edelbrock RPM heads. You will want a Super Victor intake as the Vr Jr intake(if that's what you have) will choke them down. The 392 has a high piston speed and if using the shorter 5.956 351 length rods it will like the larger ports better. They also like large carbs and a lot of plenum volume. Not knowing what your whole combo is like gears, tire size, converter, trans, intake, cam, weight, etc... I can't say what kind of an improvement just bolting on the PT 215s will make or if you need to change other things to match to get an improvement. Mill the heads and bump the compression up and you can still drive 12-13:1 on pump gas but you have to be careful not to get on it much. The throttle directly dictates the compression the engine sees at any given time. The less throttle you give, the less compression it has and can be driven on pump gas without worries or issues. You would need to jet down at the track when going from pump gas to non exygenated race fuel to maintain proper A/F ratio that way. The PT 215s are great heads and just a cleanup is all that's needed if you just want low 6s from your 392. Cam, intake, gearing, carb, and traction will be the deciding factors to make or break you goals. The heads alone may get you close (with traction of course)but i don't know without seeing the rest of your combo. I have some old pics of both my alum and iron PT 215 back when I was porting the irons which I am still using on my 392 and decided to sell the aluminum PT 215s since all the funny reactions I get telling people "iron heads and cast pistons" when asked what I got in it almost every pass I make

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My intentions is to put a set of the box stock 215s on the 393 thats in the car now just to see what kind of difference the heads will make, but the motor will be coming out and put in a street legal car(79 Capri RS Turbo)
The 60 fts in my signature are slow due to using a stock ranger converter that stalls about 2400. I have since intalled a 9.5 inch Precision Industries 4200 converter. The 60 fts dropped to 1.40-42 but I lost about 1.5 mph.
The combo is scat 9000 crank
Eagle SIR rods
TRW forged 302 pistons (bricks)
RPM heads (Home Hack job)
Holley Street Dominator intake w/2" spacer
780 vacume secondary Holley
Ultradyne SR 247/253 .620 110lsa 106icl
69 block, Canton Pan, C4 4.56 gear 2800lbs?
Anti roll bar, 10.5 M/T, 6500 rpm shift point.
Best in cold weather 6.58 @ 104

This is what I have to work with for the new motor:
D4 block, hard blocked, splayed 4 bolt caps
4340 4.1 stroke Eagle crank
Scat 6.250 H beam rods
Diamond flat top pistons 4.062
Victor Jr intake
Ported Victor Jr heads 2.08 1.60
Pro topline 215 heads 2.08/ 1.60
Comp cams solid roller 258/260 110 lsa .672
CompSR 263/276 .704/ .672 110 lsa
Comp SR 243/251 .620/ .680 lsa?
UltradyneSolid Flat Tappet 243/247.56?108lsa
Ultradyne SR 247/253 .620 110lsa
950 hp carb
850 Holley

The 2 parts that I'm wanting to work around is the 4.56 gear and the 4200 stall speed I plunked down $700 for.

What do you think?

quote:

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Originally posted by mike70351w:
Don't wanna hi-jack the thread but what should I expect from a PT head 215 with the following combo.

Current head is World SR. last time at the track is 60ft = 1.782 , 330 = 5.022 , 1/8 = 7.786 at 88.79 mph , 1000 = 10.189 , 1/4 is 12.236 at 110.06 MPH. This was 1 of 2 run running BFG drag radail for the very first time. 2nd run was 12.242 at 109.65 (I drop 2 degree from timing)

cam dur- int-236 ext-242
lift .555 .534
110 lobe

408W, 700DP, C4-3200 stall, 3.89 gear, dish piston, perform RPM, 2.5 exhaust with headers. BFG drag radial, MSD dist/ MSD 6A

thank for any advice

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Does your present heads have any porting done?

If not you could see a pretty substansual gain- maybe 50hp or more?

A cam with more lift would make the bigger heads produce better power. They really shine above .500 lift

The 215s flow about 310 at.600 and close to 320 at .700

Theres 650 HP potentual out of the box with the right parts.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

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Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Traction problem????

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No stall speed!
2400

quote:

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Originally posted by scottford351:

My intentions is to put a set of the box stock 215s on the 393 thats in the car now just to see what kind of difference the heads will make, but the motor will be coming out and put in a street legal car(79 Capri RS Turbo)
The 60 fts in my signature are slow due to using a stock ranger converter that stalls about 2400. I have since intalled a 9.5 inch Precision Industries 4200 converter. The 60 fts dropped to 1.40-42 but I lost about 1.5 mph.
The combo is scat 9000 crank
Eagle SIR rods
TRW forged 302 pistons (bricks)
RPM heads (Home Hack job)
Holley Street Dominator intake w/2" spacer
780 vacume secondary Holley
Ultradyne SR 247/253 .620 110lsa 106icl
69 block, Canton Pan, C4 4.56 gear 2800lbs?
Anti roll bar, 10.5 M/T, 6500 rpm shift point.
Best in cold weather 6.58 @ 104

This is what I have to work with for the new motor:
D4 block, hard blocked, splayed 4 bolt caps
4340 4.1 stroke Eagle crank
Scat 6.250 H beam rods
Diamond flat top pistons 4.062
Victor Jr intake
Ported Victor Jr heads 2.08 1.60
Pro topline 215 heads 2.08/ 1.60
Comp cams solid roller 258/260 110 lsa .672
CompSR 263/276 .704/ .672 110 lsa
Comp SR 243/251 .620/ .680 lsa?
UltradyneSolid Flat Tappet 243/247.56?108lsa
Ultradyne SR 247/253 .620 110lsa
950 hp carb
850 Holley

The 2 parts that I'm wanting to work around is the 4.56 gear and the 4200 stall speed I plunked down $700 for.

What do you think?

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Dang, 780 VS w/Street Dominator, 247/253 on 110 at 106, RPM heads and 2400 stall running 6.60s at 105? That is damn good for that combo even at that weight. The looser converter will usually kill some MPH while improving the ET and 60' so going to the 4200 and only losing 1.5mph while dropping a tenth sounds like a good trade. Once you put more power to it you should see it become more efficient and react much better. I don't see the PT 215s helping your current combo at all and may actually hurt it simply because the intake is waaay too small to feed the PT 215s, the carb is much too small and it will definitely need a DP not a VS carb to get off the line hard like it should otherwise the VS carb will bge a soft leave and not flash the converter like it should, and the PT 215s have larger chambers than the RPM heads so the compression will be lower. I would take the Vr Jr intake you have listed in your other combo and put it on THIS engine and the 950HP carb and have fun. The 850DP actually is larger and flows more than the 950HP as the 950 is measured at 3" vacuum as opposed to the 850 which is at 1.5" vacuum. The 950HP only flows like 835CFM or so but it is very tunable.

The 425 I would use the PT 215s, ditch the Vr Jr intake and get a Super Victor 351W intake, use the first cam installed on a 108ICL or the 2nd cam on a 106ICL as I prefer the 2nd cam but because of your somewhat tight 4200 converter ither cam installed at the ICLs I suggested even with the large 425 cubes and 12.5-13:1 compression it will work well and should get you damn close to the 5s. Use a minimum 1 7/8 header and it will make the power. If stuck using the Vr Jr intake, then you can use 1 3/4" headers without hurting as the Vr Jr will be the restriction in. If you can get the Pt 215s ported or cleaned up, they will really shine but the Super Victor intake only needs a port match and maybe a 2" spacer if you have the room. If not, use a 1" and either carb will work OK but try a real carb with real CFM when you get the chance to borrow one. A real 950-1050 4150 carb from a specialty shop or a BG which are rated the old correct 1.5" vacuum should show a good improvement. A 1050 Dominator would be great if you could try one like a 9375 1050. a 2" adapter with traction and you should need some wheelie bars. Nitrous would of course enhance it because of the tight converter but the gear is too much for the bottle. It may be too much for your 425 naturally aspirated or be darn close to redlining it through the traps. I would say 7000-7200 will be the shift point with either cam installed at the mentioned ICLs but I need to know what ICLs those first 2 Comp Cam cams were ground on. The more port work the PT 215s get and the larger the carb, the higher the RPMs will be where the engine will be happy and the broader the RPM range will be. The ported Vr Jr heads are just not as up to the task or have the potential the PT 215s have though not to say they wouldn't work well either but the PTs will give you more power. Looks like a good solid combo you're planning

quote:

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Originally posted by mike70351w:
Don't wanna hi-jack the thread but what should I expect from a PT head 215 with the following combo.

Current head is World SR. last time at the track is 60ft = 1.782 , 330 = 5.022 , 1/8 = 7.786 at 88.79 mph , 1000 = 10.189 , 1/4 is 12.236 at 110.06 MPH. This was 1 of 2 run running BFG drag radail for the very first time. 2nd run was 12.242 at 109.65 (I drop 2 degree from timing)

cam dur- int-236 ext-242
lift .555 .534
110 lobe

408W, 700DP, C4-3200 stall, 3.89 gear, dish piston, perform RPM, 2.5 exhaust with headers. BFG drag radial, MSD dist/ MSD 6A

thank for any advice

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I would expect a few hundred more usable RPM up top if the springs can handle it and a nice broad powerband. I think if the Windsor Sr heads are as cast, you can see a 3-4MPH improvement but a Vr Jr should really be used with the heads you have now and would probably put you in the high 11s but if not you would gain MPH while possibly losing a little 60' for a possible noo gain/loss. A 408 and combo like yours is borderline Vr Jr needy. The converter, gears, compression, weight, and cam are all right there on the borderline. The Pt 215 swap would still improve what you have now and leave you open to much more potentail if you ever had the itch. I have had much experience with the Windsor Sr heads since the early 90s and I did love using them in everything even though they needed large amounts of port work to really shine the fact is they shined and did what many couldn't believe but not the PT 215 iron heads are the sleepers and are worlds ahead of the World heads (pun intended) and the Wr Sr heads can not compare in any way shape or form. Just barely clean up the 215s and you are already past the max effort max port Windsor Sr head yet they cost the same. I have no experience with the PT 200s as I have only messed with the PT 215s. The RHS 215s should be the same and even at full price they are still worth it.

Ive run the two Comp rollers through simulation programs and the first generates more torque at peak and only falls a few HP short of the second cam.I think I'll try it first.

That old 780 vacume carb is my best buddie!
I don't know how much it flows but I would guess around 900. I have knife edged the throttle blades and TIGed them to the thinned shafts (NO SCREWS). The venturis have been opened up and the choke horn removed and the boosters thinned.
It looks like I found it in the bottom of a trash dumpster! (35 years old)
The present combination didn't like any double pumper I tried because of the low stall speed.

I was going to put one of the Victor Jr on the present motor when I changed the heads. The Street dominator is already maxed out on port size and is still not big enough for the heads.

Did you port your exhaust into the inside bolt holes or did you port around them, making a hour glass shapped port?
The header flanges I planned on using has a round opening.
I have a set of Headman Husslers with the 3" bolt pattern (for a 93 coupe Im doing) that have square ports. Wonder which would be best? (The 93 coupe is going to be 398 w/ set of 215s also)

My goal is to stay ahead of my neighbors 540 Malibu. I beat him by .03 and its just killing him. I'm in the cross hairs now.
If I can run 6.20s I don't think he will ever catch me.
I wish you could race him so I could rub it in his face that he got toasted by a Pinto station wagon! with groceries in the back!!

Cheers