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Author
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Topic: Roll bar and sub frame connectors
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-12-2006 02:54 AM
 
Ok I know it's been asked 1000 times.
But who makes the best fitting,easy to install,and product out there? for sub frame connectors,and a roll bar for either whats better bolt on or weld? I've read the bolt on Sub Frame connectors fit better?I know I need a 5 point bar if I even get to 11.49 lets hope I'll get there soon. 
This winter I want to install these items. So I have some time to shop and save my money now. Thanks ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2230
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 08-12-2006 10:29 AM
My uncle used weld in subframes, in loves them. IMO weld in is always better. It requires more work, but I can see them being stronger. I heard weld in subframes dont work as well either, in decreasing body twist and the like.------------------
06 Chebby cobalt SS
88 thunderbird TC 2.3L
Gillis at 18 psi, walbro fuel pump, Kirban afpr, 3.73 8.8" rear, rebuilt head, Ranger roller, .48/.60 T3 with clipped wheel, ported elbow, 3 in exhuast, FMIC 66 mustang V8 swap baby 68 Fairlane 289 w/ auto
rusting away motor is going in the mustang
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Greg Pettit
Gearhead Posts: 162
From: Denton, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-12-2006 10:40 AM
Bolt in stuff that is pre-fabbed is pretty lame.You can weld in custom bars and connectors for about the same price as the bolt in stuff, and it is all but guaranteed to fit better. Besides, bolt in subframe connectors are not nearly as good as welded in through the floorpan type connectors. Come to think of it, the same goes for the cage. Greg ------------------
'71 Torino GT 545 stroker, Ported Edelbrock CJ heads, 11.8:1 compression, Victor intake with 850 DP, TCI streetfighter converter, 4.56 detroit locker, full interior with A/C
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-12-2006 02:10 PM
I once heard the bolt in sub frame connectors fit better,then you weld them in once fitted?The roll bar I'd only do a weld in. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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XR7
Gearhead Posts: 191
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 08-12-2006 11:09 PM
I heard the same thing, buy the bolt on connectors and weld them in. I did mine 25 years ago and can't remember the brand. I did my roll cage last year, it is a S&W and the main hoop fit very well, they have more selection for Ford body styles instead of some companies having a one size fits 5 different bodies. I think Alston is close to you but they don't fit the 65-68 mustangs as well.------------------
68 Cougar XR7, 428 4-speed, Best ET 6.82 @ 101 1/8, 10.69@ 127.44 with 1.51 60 ft. Street legal all steel car w/ full interior.
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Catmando
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-13-2006 12:31 AM
I've used S+W in 3 different cars, including my Cougar now. Always been real happy with what I got. I made my own subframe for this car, but did use "weld on" connectors for a Fox Stang before. I think they were either S+W or Southside Machine. I think the problem with bolt ons is the thin tin you bolt them to, I think in a bad event, they would rip out or may wear loose over time.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 08-13-2006 01:00 AM
Ron,The truth is, once you weld in a cage you won't need the subframe connectors.  SteveW
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Darryl Eichenlaub
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Buckley,Wa.
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 08-13-2006 05:43 AM
The setup I did was I welded a set of Timman subframe connectors. I welded just as the directon said to. Then I says to myself, "Self won't it be a stronger chassis if I weld it here and here and some on this side." So made some brackets to tie into the subframe for the rollbar bolts to. I also opened up the floor where the conncetors tie into the stock frame rail so I could get some good deep prenatraiting welds ( directions wanted a couple plug welds ) When it came time for me to do it I knew I wanted to tie everything together so the roll bar , the sub frame connectors, the Shelby underriders Traction bar, and the driveline safety loop would act like one system.
I looked at some of the real nice bolt in kits, and have seen them on cars. They look very cool and even look like they would do what they were design to do. But me being a tight wad I decided I'd go the cheaper way(cash)and did the harder and dirty way with more work. But I'm very pleased with how it came out. (Can't wait to install my 9" disc brake rear end to see just how hard it will launch.)------------------
Darryl Eichenlaub
1965 Mustang Coupe restomod 289,c4,body and interior mods.
1956 F-100 460,c6,9" major body mods, on going project.
1967 Mustang Fastback, father/son project 5.0,5spd,9".
1975 F250 4x4 Highboy 390,4spd,35",custom paint.
2002 Mustang v6,5spd, daughters college ride.
2001 Ford Escape, Wifes grocery getter.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-13-2006 02:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Ron,The truth is, once you weld in a cage you won't need the subframe connectors. SteveW
Your talking about a 6 point cage, not just a 4 point bar right?
I'd like to do a legal roll bar that I can still use the back seat for now,then add the front half later. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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Greg Pettit
Gearhead Posts: 162
From: Denton, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-14-2006 10:58 AM
I don't see how ANY bolt in frame connector can be as strong as a custom through the floor type:  And I also disagree that a cage eliminates the need for frame connectors. That would be like building a bridge with no road, which is the strength equivalent of a "C" shape vs. a box shape. Greg ------------------
'71 Torino GT 545 stroker, Ported Edelbrock CJ heads, 11.8:1 compression, Victor intake with 850 DP, TCI streetfighter converter, 4.56 detroit locker, full interior with A/C
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 08-14-2006 11:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Your talking about a 6 point cage, not just a 4 point bar right?
I'd like to do a legal roll bar that I can still use the back seat for now,then add the front half later.
Yes, of course. A 4 pt roll bar isn't legal for 11.49 or quicker. A 6 pt bar/cage is and will tie the unibody together better than any subframe connector. SteveW p.s. Not to say the subframe connectors and a rollbar wouldn't be stiffer, just that they aren't needed for an 11 second pass or 50 11 second passes.  A little flexibility is a good thing for a dragster chassis. Look at rails and get back to me.....
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Catmando
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-15-2006 12:48 AM
I think we all have clouded this up for Fastymz. There are two different set ups here we are talking about. You can weld on or bolt on subframe connectors. Then with or with out them, you can weld in the cage by welding 6x6 flat plates onto the unibody and building your cage up from there. This cage setup does not rely on the subframe connectors. They each can live without one another, but together they are stronger.
The second method (like Mr. Pettit's photo) is what I did in my Cougar this time. Through the floor fabricated subrame connectors, upon which the cage is also constructed. My cage is welded to the subrame, and the subframe is fully welded into the floorpan and to the front and rear stock subframes.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-15-2006 02:31 AM
What do you guys think of swing out or removable side bars?
I contacted SW RACECARS they gave me these prices,
Roll Bar $169.95
Rear runners $44.95
Swing outs $69.90 (pair)
Told me they are NHRA legal and the rear runners will allow for the rear seat.
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-15-2006 01:51 PM
I have removable side bars in my car with a bolt in cage. I know weld in is better but this is removable. I only installed it originally for the Silver State Classic. I rarely have the side bars in the car and it would have been a pain to have them in all of the time. I bought this kit many years ago but I believe the company is/was Autopower. I like the idea of a custom cage that is welded with bolt in side bars. I'm sure that would be 3x the price of ready made. quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
What do you guys think of swing out or removable side bars?
I contacted SW RACECARS they gave me these prices,
Roll Bar $169.95
Rear runners $44.95
Swing outs $69.90 (pair)
Told me they are NHRA legal and the rear runners will allow for the rear seat.
[This message has been edited by JAAZZY (edited 08-15-2006).]
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-15-2006 03:48 PM
I found the web site. Seems they are still around. One more option.http://www.autopowerindustries.com/
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 08-15-2006 11:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
What do you guys think of swing out or removable side bars?
I contacted SW RACECARS they gave me these prices,
Roll Bar $169.95
Rear runners $44.95
Swing outs $69.90 (pair)
Told me they are NHRA legal and the rear runners will allow for the rear seat.
Ron, Looks like you got plenty of food for thought.I'll throw in my opinion and make it even worse. On a car with a swing out bar it should have a full roll cage, not just a six or four point bar.Safety is the main reason for a roll bar,it just so happens that it helps the chassis too.
A stock bodied car needs all the stiffness it can get.The stiffer the platform, the better it will respond to shock and chassis tuning adjustments.A dragster chassis works in a different way and needs the flex to help it plant the tires.
On my own car we installed a six point roll bar and weld in subframe connectors.The side bars are solid.They run through a hole in the floor and are bent 90 degrees to allow welding to the frame just behind the front wheel.This helps stiffen the car and ties the front frame section into the cage.
My advise would be to put as much roll cage in the car as possible, that way if you decide to go faster you won't have to do it over.Make it safe...then make it go fast! Regards , Mark
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Quarter Horse
Journeyman Posts: 33
From: Kansas
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 08-16-2006 07:28 PM
I recently had the S&W bar and rear runners (seat savers) installed in my 67. The main hoop fit very well. The rear runners are fairly generic and needed a lot of work (modify the bend angle and shorten). I had my bolt in subframe connectors welded. You might give some thought to how you connect the side bars to the front floor pan/rocker. If you have torque boxes the area is pretty stiff, but if not it's kinda flimsy. 67's have T-box on driver side only. My installer welded a bar from the front frame to the rocker (thru the pan), and then welded the side bar to that extra bar. I have pics if interested. Seems better than just 6x6 plate to the pan. Way more work though.I vote for the weld in side bars (no swing outs)... stiffer and probably safer. I've heard that swing outs are a pain over time. They fit good on day one, but misalignment creeps in as the body tweaks from launches or temp changes etc... then you end up wallowing (sp?) out the hole for the pins. 
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-16-2006 07:41 PM
I'd like to see some pictures when you can.I like the roll bar with the street rear bars and removable cross bar from Autopower. I might just get that setup for now. My car won't see anything close to 11's any time soon. When I make a full time drag car then I'll look into a cage system. As for the sub frame connectors, I'm looking into building some of my own. Not sure yet on those. Thanks for all the advice and help. I like all the different oppinions and options. As always you guys are the best!  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-16-2006 09:29 PM
If you are down in the Bay Area sometime you are welcome to stop by and take a look before you buy.
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-17-2006 01:55 PM
As soon as I get a new PC I'll snap some pics for you. That might be a while. I just spent a small fortune on the car so I can't justify it for a bit. quote:
Originally posted by JAAZZY:
If you are down in the Bay Area sometime you are welcome to stop by and take a look before you buy.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-17-2006 02:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JAAZZY:
If you are down in the Bay Area sometime you are welcome to stop by and take a look before you buy.
Ok,I'll email you first,if I get down there on business. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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