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Author
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Topic: glowing manifold and turbo
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uncatchable
Journeyman Posts: 7
From:
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 07-11-2006 09:54 PM
 
I have a 87 T/C that sat for 2 years and the muffler rusted out so I took it to the shop today and had a muffler put on it. Before the new muffler I had 10 to 12 psi now I have 7 to 8 and the manifold gets red hot, could the mechanic have screwed up the cat? Would that cause insufficent flow and cause the manifold to heat up? Thanks for any possible help.
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 07-11-2006 10:01 PM
It sounds like the muffler might be really restrictive. I've never really messed with a turbo'd gas engine, but if you have 10-12 psi of boost before the muffler and 7-8 with the muffler, there must be something wrong with the muffler or tailpipe he put on. Others will chime in that know more.------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ stuffed closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans,custom 4200 JPT converter, a Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 336.6 RWHP @ 7000 rpm and 358.2 RWTQ @ 4200 rpm.
1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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Marty Buth
Journeyman Posts: 72
From:
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-12-2006 08:15 AM
I think there are several potential root causes for your problem. I would go to Turboford.org and post on their tech board with your issue. I think you will get a lot of help from a lot of very knowledgable people who own turbo Ford T-birds and Mustangs.Marty
"Half a V8" I & J/FIA
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 07-12-2006 09:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by uncatchable:
I have a 87 T/C that sat for 2 years.... the manifold gets red hot, could the mechanic have screwed up the cat? Would that cause insufficent flow and cause the manifold to heat up?
I'd bet that your converter guts have rusted/rotted & broken down and is acting as the exhaust restriction.... Remove your old cat from the system and install a section of flexible exhaust pipe then re-check.... I'd bet that's where you'll find your problem. Good Luck!
Ryan 
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cookie_monster
Journeyman Posts: 70
From: south, central, us
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 07-14-2006 10:56 PM
Clogged cat converter is a good possibility. So is a malfunctioning SPOUT connector (bad connection, falling apart, etc) but the SPOUT is easily checked with a timing light. Should be 10 deg with the spout disconnected and should jump 10+ deg with it connected.Personally, I would have ditched the whole exhaust system and went with a 3" downpipe, 3" high flow cat and 3" in/out muffler...it'd be plenty quiet and you'd notice a nice seat of the pants increase in power and overall responsiveness. This is especially true if you upgrade later on to a T3 turbo and 3" elbow.
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uncatchable
Journeyman Posts: 7
From:
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 07-29-2006 09:57 PM
What is a spout? Also the turbo is shot so I was wondering if the turbo from a merkur will work with the 87 2.3t intrecooler and all that.
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69Cat
Journeyman Posts: 97
From: Sask., Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-30-2006 10:28 PM
Maybe not applicable here, but I was working one time with a Cat diesel 3412 (V-12) gen-set with a turbo on each bank. It had plug fuel filters (low fuel pressure) so was missing noticeably under full load. Anyway, the manifolds were cherry red with the bad fuel filters, changed them out and were able to get max power output (as opposed to about 75%) and the manifolds were just a little red at full load.Maybe a fuel system problem on a gas engine will cause similar symptoms??
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 1069
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 07-30-2006 11:13 PM
Sounds like motor is leaning out fuel pressure maybe? Also what was posted about cat falling apart could be if the shop just put new mufler and tailpipe on I'm sure they where using iompact tools and that may have tattled the converter enough to cause it to clocg up or fall apart internally. You memntioed that the turbo is shot. I beleive that the merkur turbo is the same as yours. My son had an 88 TC and we were contemplating buying a merkur for parts. Good luck but I would check fuel pressure first and has the fuel filter been changed recently? cOuld be a problem too causing leanout condition.------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Performer Nitrous, ceramic headers WC T5, cable clutch MagnaFlow SS kit W/X Pipe 3.89 9". SSBC 4 piston frdisc Clearwater Aqua, Vintage 40 series 16X8 215 front 255/50 drag radials 308 RWHP@5800rpm 300 tq NA 385rwhp 380 w 75 shot 13.11 @111mph
88 GT (FiveOfastback's ride)347 forged internal Twisted wedge Comp 274 HR Track Heat, BBK headers X pipe Gforce ? RWHP ? RWTQ Red and Silver New Project 69 Boss 302 Acapulco Blue
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Whitson
Gearhead Posts: 290
From: Western Canada
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 10:13 AM
All Merkurs and 83 to 86 TC & SVO used a T3 Turbo. 87/88 TC used an IHI turbo. The T3 can be swapped onto the 87/88 but it's not a bolt on. The outlet is at the wrong angle for the intercooler, and there are issues with the lube lines.I perfer the quicker responce of the smaller IHI to the T3 but it's a very popular swap. turboford.net has lots of details.
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2230
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 07-31-2006 06:56 PM
Swapping a T3 is a cake walk. Here is an article I wrote along with everything you need.
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/Installing_T3_on_87-88TC/Installing_T3_on_87-88.htm[/ URL]The swap is very straight forward and can be done in a day. If you can get the right setup the T3 can spool faster then the IHI. I hit full boost with my T3 (20psi) by 2700 rpms. A good exhuast a 3" elbow and a header can make it spin just as fast. If you get an oil/water cooled T3 the only line that is different is the oil return. If you used steel brake lines or braided lines like everyone else with the IHI then it will work with the T3. If you get a T3 look for one from an SVO the compressor housing doesnt have a pipe flange like the early turbo coupes had. The early turbo coupes wernt intercooled till 87. Or I made an adapter for the turbo coupe compressor housing and it works fine. The clocking of the turbo is really no big deal either unless you go different. Now the glowing manifold. You need to check fuel pressure, cam timing, ignition timing, and the CAT can be clogged. Start easy and then work to hard. As stated the spout is supposed to be removed which is a little plug on the distributer connected by 5 in leads to the body. With this out timing should be at 10 degrees with it in around 25 degrees. Cam timing isnt hard either. Turn the crank pulley so it line sup with the TDC mark. If you dont have one, remove the crank pulley and TDC is marked on the crank. this should place the cam pulley mark pointing towards the aux shaft pulley. Get a piece of fishing string and from the center of the cam pulley bolt to the center of the aux shaft pulley bolt the timing mark on the pulley should line up with the string if not the cam belt needs to be adjusted so that the motor is at TDC and the cam is all lined up. you rfirst time will take a while. Fuel pressure is very important on this car. You will need a gauge attached to the schradder valve on the fuel rail summit sells littl egauges and autometer adapters todo this. and get a line so that you can put the gauge under the wiper. It is a waste to put the gauge on the fuel rail b/c you cant read pressure during boost. Fuel pressure should rise one psi per pound of boost. Factory fp is 39 psi, and it doesnt help to run it at 41 psi. The cat can be cut and replaced for under 100 bucks. but if i were you id save the money and just replace it with a piece of pipe till you have the money to get the entire exhuast done. [URL=http://www.stingers_performance.com]www.stingers_performance.com sells downpipes that will bolt the the stock elbow for 100 bucks it is 3 ". A full 3" if you ask me is a waste of money id run 3 " to the muffler and run 2.5 single. 3" mandrel bent from a shop is hard to find to get over the rear. But if your not worried abotu emissions dump it after the muffler before the rear.You didnt say if your car was an auto or stick. The autos were limited to 10 psi and the sticks 15 psi since the A4LDs were weak autos. If you also have the stock boost control solinoid get rid of it for a gillis valve (boost control valve) so you can run higher boost levels. The stock EEC onlu allows full boost in certain gears with the gillis you can run 15 psi in all gears. www.natomessageboard.com is a better site then turbo ford since they specify in thunder bird turbo coupes join there and ask tons of questions. ------------------
88 thunderbird TC 2.3L
Gillis at 18 psi, walbro fuel pump, Kirban afpr, 3.73 8.8" rear, rebuilt head, Ranger roller, .48/.60 T3 with clipped wheel, ported elbow, 3 in exhuast, FMIC 66 mustang V8 swap baby 68 Fairlane 289 w/ auto
rusting away motor is going in the mustang [This message has been edited by trashline (edited 07-31-2006).]
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uncatchable
Journeyman Posts: 7
From:
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 07-31-2006 09:37 PM
My tc is an auto, soon to be a t5 conversion. Has for the cat it is no longer in operation, a very long auger bit and 15 mins. took care of that and yes it was falling apart inside due to the muffler installation. After I cleared the cat I drove the car again and found that it only gets about 7 psi of boost and I only drove it about 2 miles, but when I got back the turbo itself was glowing red hot in the middle where the shaft would be thats why I believe the turbo is shot. Also it ran fine before the new muffler with 10-12 psi. Has far has NATO is concerned I registered about a month ago but never got a reply with my password to log in. But trashline you sound like you know a lot about these wonderful cars so maybe you will be a pal and help when I need it?
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 2230
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 07-31-2006 10:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by uncatchable:
My tc is an auto, soon to be a t5 conversion. Has for the cat it is no longer in operation, a very long auger bit and 15 mins. took care of that and yes it was falling apart inside due to the muffler installation. After I cleared the cat I drove the car again and found that it only gets about 7 psi of boost and I only drove it about 2 miles, but when I got back the turbo itself was glowing red hot in the middle where the shaft would be thats why I believe the turbo is shot. Also it ran fine before the new muffler with 10-12 psi. Has far has NATO is concerned I registered about a month ago but never got a reply with my password to log in. But trashline you sound like you know a lot about these wonderful cars so maybe you will be a pal and help when I need it?
Yea that auto wont hold up to much more then stock unless it is rebuilt very well. The entire turbo is going to be hot. IT spins at like 20,000 rpms or something. and 500 degree exhuast gases maybe hotter are running thru it as well. If the center section is glowing then I would pull the front adapter for the VAM hose off and check the turbo for shaft play. In and out and side to side. Spin it while putting some pressure on it. If it rubs the compressor housing then the turbo is in need for a rebuild. Also If you have oil thru your intake trac then it could be a sign of blown turbo seals same with blue smoke from the exhuast. If the center section is glowing and isnt rubbing the housing change the coolant and oil supply line they could be clogged. Check for kinks and any blockages. The stinger site I listed above sells braided supply lines and www.maxpsiracing.com sells braided returns. They cost money but are alot easier then bending a new steel line. If you need to bend new steel lines brake lines are fine try to get a tubing bender or use a small glass bottle (snapple). You have to be running more then 7 psi since the stock wastegate is rated for ~9. unless the wastegate is blown. Take the line to the wastegate and blow about 10 psi of air thru it. You should see it move and hold if it slides back in it is bad. which allows the flapper in the elbow to stay open from the pressure in the exhaust housing. Also a good first upgrade is to buy an aftermarket boost gauge. MY stocker to the aftermarket is like 3 psi of a difference. Heres my email [email protected] shoot me an email if you need any help or have any questions. ------------------
88 thunderbird TC 2.3L
Gillis at 18 psi, walbro fuel pump, Kirban afpr, 3.73 8.8" rear, rebuilt head, Ranger roller, .48/.60 T3 with clipped wheel, ported elbow, 3 in exhuast, FMIC 66 mustang V8 swap baby 68 Fairlane 289 w/ auto
rusting away motor is going in the mustang
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