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Author
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Topic: identifying block & heads?
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-05-2006 07:32 AM
 
I have found a ratty 72 Convertible for sale, supposedly with a '429 CJ' in it. (added by a previous owner, of course)
Maybe someone can help me sort out the numbers a bit:Block casting numbers(on block above starter)  1VE-A2B Head casting numbers: D87E-A2A It runs strong, but he wants a bunch for a supposed Cobra Jet, which I suspect is really just a nicely prepped, garden variety 460. Anyone can tell from these numbers?
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 7251
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-05-2006 07:52 AM
Althought I dont know much about 429-460's I do know D8 indicates a '78 casting. No CJ's made then.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-05-2006 08:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
Block casting numbers(on block above starter) D1VE-A2B Head casting numbers: D87E-A2A ....I suspect is really just a nicely prepped, garden variety 460. Anyone can tell from these numbers?
Yep, I'd agree....it's just a garden variety 460. Ryan 
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-05-2006 11:28 AM
Yup, no CJ there. The head casting numbers for a 429 CJ/SCJ are D0OE-R.These heads had stamped steel rockers with screw in studs & guideplates, and larger ports & valves. It`s likely a low compression truck or large car engine. The head numbers you listed don`t look right, a common "smogger" head was casting # D3AE-A2A. Could that be what you have? Sometimes the casting numbers are kinda hard to decipher, especially in a vehicle, with grime on it.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-05-2006 02:03 PM
The head casting numbers are correct and they came off a 1978 Mark V.The block casting number is what puzzles me. Some of the 429 CJ blocks were stamped D1VE-6015-AA, but this one is stamped D1VE-A2A. The digits in the middle are missing. It confuses me because the letter 'V' codes out as a 'Lincoln' code, and Mustangs are 'Z' as we all know. How come there are documented cases of actual CJ engines with a 'V' code? Certainly no CJs were ever installed in a Lincoln, right?
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 880
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-05-2006 05:46 PM
Unless it was a CJ block but with standard main caps?
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-05-2006 11:13 PM
For larger items like blocks, I don`t think that the "normal" car line codes is all that important for the 3rd digit of a part number. For example, the most common 428CJ head casting number is the C8OE-N. The letter "O" normally is a Fairlane code, however I`d bet that there were more 428CJ Mustangs built than Fairlanes. As for the "V" in your 460 block,(the 429 was phased out in 1973, I believe) don`t forget, when the 429-460 engine debuted in 1968, it was a Lincoln & Tbird engine, so Ford likely stayed with the "V" coding afterwards. I happen to have a 1970 429SCJ 4 bolt main block in my garage, that was origionally in a Torino, it has casting D0VE-A on it. I have also had several other D0VE-A blocks, that were 2 bolt blocks. Sometimes Fords casting numbers can be confusing, especially when the casting numbers are nothing at all similar to the actual part number.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-06-2006 08:06 AM
As I suspected. So since the casting number is D1VE-A2B, how would one definatively prove if it is a 1971 429 CJ block or a 1971 460 block?
Not a big deal really, but at this point I am just curious as to how reliable the 'numbers matching' thing is for this specific situation.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-06-2006 08:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
... since the casting number is D1VE-A2B, how would one definatively prove if it is a 1971 429 CJ block or a 1971 460 block?
Not a big deal really, but at this point I am just curious as to how reliable the 'numbers matching' thing is for this specific situation.
I don't think you can "definatively prove it" one way or the other. In fact, I'd say you shouldn't be surprised to find that block FLM-shipped as OEM in ANY 429 car ordered between 1971 - 1973! Ryan
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-06-2006 09:16 AM
Also, don`t forget that unless there was a production change, Ford didn`t neccasarily change a casting number year to year. Example, Ford built the 428CJ engine in 68,69,&70, but they all used the same casting number on the intake (C8OE-C). The "D0" 351 W head was used thru 1975. So a D1 block could have been used for several years. A better way to tell what year the block is, is to find the casting date, and the "build" date. The casting date will be cast into the block in small figures, while the build date will be stamped into the block, normally small numbers & letters, on a machined surface. I`m not terribly familiar with the 429-460`s, but for example, on a 352-428 FE engine, the casting date is found at the bottom of the block, beside the oil filter adapter, while the build date is stamped into one of the 4 rectangular "lugs" on either end of the block, just below the deck surface. I understand that these lugs were used by Ford to hold the block in position during machining. Either way, these small date codes are virtually impossible to read unless the block is really clean and out of the vehicle.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-06-2006 12:07 PM
That all seems to coincide with what I have been told over the years. I have also read that the 4-bolt blocks are the same as the 2-bolt blocks, insofar as the only differnce is that the main caps are the sole difference. Tap some extra holes and you have an 'authentic' CJ block.
Somewhere else I have read that the CJ blocks had thicker main web castings, but if they carry the same casting code then that doesn't make sense to me.
Oh well....So, unless it is a numbers matching car, there seems little real reason to search out a real CJ engine when a standard 460 can easily and cheaply be built to perform the same if not a whole bunch better.
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 1123
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 05-06-2006 01:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
. I have also read that the 4-bolt blocks are the same as the 2-bolt blocks, insofar as the only differnce is that the main caps are the sole difference.
That is true, but only for 1 block. The D0VE block has thicker main webs for installing factory 4 bolt caps. They had 4 bolt mains in the CJ cars and were used in any Ford product as two bolt mains. Some 4 bolt main blocks have been found in passenger cars as well, I think Ford just used what they had coming down the line. The D0VE blocks were the only 4 bolt blocks (other than rare Boss 429 blocks) Even a 71 CJ car will have a D0VE block. So, A D1 block never was a CJ. To me, the 2 bolt D0VE block is the best of them all. It has the thick webbing, so it's easy to put aftermarket 4 bolt caps on it that are stronger than the factory 4 bolt caps. They are also 4 bolt caps that are made just for the thinner web blocks. C8, C9, D1, etc. They are made by Blue Thunder. They work great, it just takes more machine work to install them than putting caps on the above mentioned 2 bolt D0VE. I have a set on my 557 using a thin web C8 block.
 David Cole
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-06-2006 03:39 PM
So you are saying the D0VE-blocks had the thicker main webs, and were used for both 4-bolt CJ and 2 bolt non-CJ applications, and that the D1VE-blocks were all 2-bolt only, and therefore never installed in any CJ/SCJ application?
That makes sense, however on the '429 megasite', there is photo documentation of original-equipment D1VE blocks in 71 CJ Mustangs.
I am confused...
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 1123
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 05-06-2006 03:52 PM
Hmmm. Learn something new all the time. I've never seen a D1 CJ block, but they exist according to that site. I've seen several 71 CJ's with the D0VE block like the site mentions. It also says that a 71 CJ block has the casting # D1VE 6015-AA whereas the regular D1 block doesn't have the 6015 in the middle.I would bet that the D1 CJ block is one rare piece. All the D0VE blocks have the thick web, but apparently only the "6015-AA" version of the D1 block has them. To further confuse things..... I guess the 6015 AA to denote a CJ block is for the AA version only. I have 2 D1VE 6015 A2B blocks in the garage. Neither are thick web. So, if the letters after the number are anything other than AA, it's not a thick web. The thick web/thin web deal is overblown IMHO though. I thin web block with aftermarket caps will live in the 900 hp range for a long, long time. David Cole ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.88 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
SC/ET #2729
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cobravenom71
Gearhead Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 05-06-2006 09:53 PM
Yeah, I wasn't too concerned about durability. I just get obsessed with finding out 'why things are' sometimes and keep looking for answers even though I know the answer is meaningless anyway.
My wife thinks I have OCD.
Oh well, I have to go and wash my hands again. See ya later!
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-07-2006 03:20 AM
In addition to the 4 bolt main D0VE-A block I have, I had also temporaily "inherited" several D0VE-A 2 bolt blocks. Saying that the only differance between the 2 blocks is not really correct, as since the 4 bolt main caps are considerably wider than the 2 bolt caps, the machined registers that locate the caps on either side are also wider on the 4 bolt block. Also, the 4 bolt caps have dowel pins between the block & caps, so the block is naturally drilled for for these pins. As I understand it, the 429CJ/SCJ blocks in 71 were all 4 bolt main, but the 1970 CJ was a 2 bolt, with only the SCJ having the 4 bolt caps that year. As for the D1 vs D0 4 bolt blocks, I wonder if perhaps there may have been some minor modifactaion required to install the 429 in the 71 Mustang, maybe something like an extra bolt hole, or casting boss for example that was not needed on the Torino platform. That may possibly explain the need for an extra block number. I have seen both 70 & 71 Torino 4 bolt blocks with the D0 casting, but I can`t say that I have seen the D1 4 bolt block in person to compare.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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warhorse1
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: camino
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 05-08-2006 01:23 PM
note to self: the casting number is NOT a part number,it tells you what the part was originally designed for not what is was USED on it's confusing at best......Jay
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