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Author
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Topic: Blown 331 Rotating Assembly
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-15-2006 03:50 PM
 
Hi guys/gals, this is my first post here. You look to be a knowledgable bunch, so I'm jumpin' in with both feet to test you out!Time to kick the '67 Stang up a few notches. I'm building a 6-71 blown 331 with a Dart Iron Eagle block (arriving any day now), and am currently considering AFR 205 heads (58cc chambers) with enlarged (80cc) exhaust ports. I'm shooting for somewhere in the 650-800hp range and was looking for opinions on rotating assemblies. Naturally I'm all for a 4340 crank & H-beams, but was wondering if you had specific manufacturer suggestions that would fit this combo (at the upper end of the stated power level for insurance, handle around 7000RPM, with 3.25" stroke and dished pistons that would give around 8.5:1 static CR with the 58cc chambers). Phew, that was a mouth full. Thank you for any input you might lend! MM p.s. "Hi," Big D!
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 02-19-2006 02:04 AM
Mike,I think you'd be better off with a good rotating assembly for that power level. Eagle and Scat are not "the good stuff". Good enough for most of us, but not for your goals. Callies cranks are good, Oliver rods etc. Good luck with the project, SteveW
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-19-2006 06:00 AM
Thanks, Steve- that's kind of what I gathered about the Eagle & Scat stuff (and in no way am I knocking their products). It's taking a lot of research but I'll get there. I refuse to rush into anything or skimp on parts. It would be nice to discover someone here that's running a similar build (I'm sure I'm not the first)- I'd like to know what they went with and how it has turned out for them. I think after I get the rotating assembly lined up, I'll make another post here and see what you guys think, just as one more way of double-checking myself.MM
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 998
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 02-19-2006 03:38 PM
I'm wondering why you are locked in on the 3.25 crank. Are you building this for some class where the size matters?If not why don't you go for big cubic inches? The point of a blower is to artificially make the engine larger by forcing more air in it. If it is larger to begin with it will be easier to make your horsepower goals and have a reliable engine. John
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Big D
Gearhead Posts: 6843
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-19-2006 03:46 PM
Hey Mike,,Glad you made it over to Ford Racing Forum.. These guys do know their stuff and are more than willing to help.. Don't know how many of you guys read the post in Sam's Place but Mike is also going to need some help getting his Cpe to Hook-Up once he gets all that HP.. His Mustang has a tendency to smoke the tires a bit.. 
Picture was taken at our car show during the Burn Out Contest.. Welcome Aboard Mike..
------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5
Metallic Royal Blue & Silver
Candy Orange-Red Flames by McGrafix
My Pics
[This message has been edited by Big D (edited 02-19-2006).]
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-20-2006 11:58 AM
Thanks, Bid D - yep, these guys know their stuff all right. Glad to be aboard.John, thanks for the input. I'm definitely familiar with the saying "there's no replacement for displacement." The decision to go the 331 route was based in part by parts I already have.
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-25-2006 11:48 AM
I've been searching my rear off, but so far haven't found anything in between say, a Scat 4340 crank and a Crower 4340 ($2000+)!My eyes are setting once again on Scat. The seem popular, and it seems like people's opinions here are "they aren't the best" but they're good for what you pay for - and my machinist doesn't absolutely hate them. Has anyone come across a horsepower rating for the standard weight 4340 302 Scat crank? MM
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Big D
Gearhead Posts: 6843
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-26-2006 11:49 PM
ttt
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 02-27-2006 05:05 PM
Mike,I thought I'd bump the top since I have the same question. I don't expect my supercharged (late model block) 302(342)to last very long even though we are limiting power. I'll be building a very similar motor to yours once it blows. I'll also be going with a Dart 331 and will be wondering about crank, rods and pistons. I'm probably okay with my ported TFS high port heads. Hopefully after that I can crank it up to a truely useless amount of power. 
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-27-2006 05:59 PM
Hey man, that's pretty cool- I like knowing someone else out there is as loony as me.  After an extremely brief call with Scat, Brian there told me that the 4340 standard weight crank is rated for 900hp. I think it should probably do the trick. In other news, my Dart Iron Eagle block arrived at my machinist's today. Shipped in a white cardboard box. Opened 'er up and had five beefy main caps staring back at me. Definitely looks like a nice piece. I'll have to post some pictures of it on my web site later. I'll post here on this thread when that happens, in case you're interested. Good luck on your project! [This message has been edited by Mustang Mike (edited 02-27-2006).]
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-27-2006 08:20 PM
By the way, Jaazzy- what car is your motor in?
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-27-2006 08:46 PM
Concerning pistons, I'm considering JE Pistons part #170850, which have a -26.5cc inverted dome, and with the 3.25" stroke and 5.4" rod, come to between an 8.1:1 and 8.4:1 SCR with the AFR 205's 58cc chambers. Prrrrfect.http://www.jepistons.com/pdf/2006-je4.pdf What amuses me about these, other than being JE quality, is their little advertising blurbs that happen to fit this app: "Great for turbo, nitrous, and superchargers" and "Oversized valve reliefs accommodate larger valves and high lift cams". Yada, yada, I know, but they're hookin' me. MM [This message has been edited by Mustang Mike (edited 02-28-2006).]
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 918
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 02-28-2006 01:45 PM
I have a 65 Coupe. It has a D1 Procharger with Accel DFI. If it wasn't for a couple of parts out of stock I would have already had the car finished. It should be ready next week. I'll still be missing the O2 sensor because Accel switched to a new unit and doesn't have them ready for shipment. I try not to lose my cool about such things but they were supposed to have them ready at the beginning of the year. I have a late model motor put together by Coast about 2-3 years ago. It doesn't have many miles so I didn't want to pull it out yet(not to mention the extra $$$). I am hoping it lasts another 18 months. We are keeping the boost down so hopefully it will. I posted pics of the motor about a month ago. If you do a search they are probably still there. Good luck with your project as well.
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-02-2006 03:12 PM
A couple interesting (but unproductive) developments-Called Callies today after seeing a reference to a Ford Dragon Slayer on the net. They said they did used to make those cranks, but stopped because they were so busy with everything else. They indicated that they would start producing the Ford Dragon Slayer crank again mid summer of this year (unfortunatley, too long for me to wait). I see that Summit Racing has a Trick Flow 4340 crank on clearance right now. According to TFS, they discontinued that crank about a year ago. They also said the crank was only rated for 500 or so HP. I could have sworn that I saw a Summit mag with a 1000HP estimate on that crank years ago, but oh well... Talked with Jeff Colvert at Accucrank today and was going to pick his brain on a few things. The conversation didn't get far off the ground however, as he just sold the company and is in the process of moving. In the 45 seconds I did talk to him though, he seemed like a nice feller... The search continues. I can't believe it's this hard to find a quality substitute for a Scat 4340 crank at a sub $1000 price tag, but I haven't come across it yet. Again, I'm not knocking Scat, I'm just looking to exhaust all other options first, and I can't convince myself that I've done that yet. Frustrated.
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Big D
Gearhead Posts: 6843
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-02-2006 04:13 PM
Hey Mike.. Have you ever been to this website.. http://www.racingjunk.com/
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-05-2006 11:12 AM
Thanks, Don - I took a peek and it's a classified ads site, and I could probably use that for some things in the future, but the crank & rods will be new. Thanks for the reference though!
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Mustang Mike
Journeyman Posts: 24
From: Twin Falls, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-09-2006 03:12 PM
I hope I don't get blasted for replying to my own topic, but I figured this might be of interest to others, maybe for future reference.Oliver doesn't even mess with forgings. Billet only! They said there were a few employees that were expressing their opinions and desires to produce a forged crank, but the company doesn't want to get into them. I figured if Oliver produced a forged crank it'd be comparable in quality and price to Crower's and wanted to get that out on the decision-making table, but that case is closed. Ohio Crankshaft said they don't have an official rating on their SBF cranks, but they could "probably" handle 700-800hp. They use Chinese forgings, and the guy I talked to (don't remember his name) had a fairly high opinion of Scat.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-09-2006 10:32 PM
If that's the case, I would choose Eagle over Scat. My Eagle stuff has been very reliable, although opinions differ.  SteveW
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