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Author
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Topic: My day at the dyno- left with questions
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Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 01-30-2006 05:12 PM
   
Hi all. I towed my fox to the dyno yesterday. It was the first time the car has been seriously run since being built. All in all, it was a fun day. The dyno was a mustang dyno. I made power pulls as well as quarter mile pulls. After getting the data, something doesn't add up to me. Is there something I'm missing? Here are my numbers:Final RWHP: 260 @ 5500rpm
(don't recall final TQ)
Final quarter mile best: 11.43 @ 113mph Now, I weighed the car and it weighs 2,800lbs with driver, which is the figure the dyno operator used. According to online HP/ET/MPH calculators, for a 2,800lb car to run an 11.43, it would take 370 RWHP. For a 2,800lb car to reach 113 in the 1/4 mile, it would take 315 RWHP. And, finally, a 2,800lb car with 260 RWHP should run 12.7 @ 106. What gives? What am I missing? See the car combo in my sig. ------------------
Kyle Laramore '87 Mustang: 351W, hyd roller cam, Vic Jr. heads & intake, 800 DP, 6AL, locked distributor, 1 3/4" LT headers, C4 w/ 4000 stall converter, 8.8" w/ 3.73 gears, 26x8.5 slicks, 2,800 lbs w/ driver. '63 Fairlane: under construction '66 Mustang Coupe: 289, Offy intake, Crane Blazer hyd. camshaft, Holley 650 DP, Headman long tube headers, 3" cut-outs, Flowmaster 2-chambers, 3.80 gears '70 Mach 1: 351C-2V, Weiand intake, 750 holley, Flowtech long-tube headers, MSD ignition, C6 trans, CJ converter, 9" track-loc rear, 3.50 gears, Flowmaster 2.5" mandrel exhaust w/ 3-chamber mufflers My advice for building & buying:
1. "Never Assume!"
2. "Pay me now or pay me later."
3. "If it's too good to be true, it probably is." My Photo Page
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Scott (69Mach)
Gearhead Posts: 798
From: Walnut Creek, CA USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-30-2006 05:45 PM
My '69 Mach dyno'd at 310 at the wheels at 6500 and runs 12.8s at 107 at Infineon (sea level). I'm guessing the car weighs 3200 with my fat butt in it...That may help you figure out your baseline. 11.43 is probably a little optimistic. You'd need one hell of a tailwind... 
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6601
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-30-2006 08:42 PM
KK's car dynoed 320 rwhp and runs consistant 7.60's with a gear that is perfectly capable of running qrtr mile. It should be a low 12 to 12 flat car pretty easily, and in good air dip into the high 11's (it's gone 7.47 1/8.)
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-30-2006 10:01 PM
I still don't know how you can "dyno" an ET.
 Use this calculator. It is deadly accurate and you can trust the results.
This is what I use for my base line.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calchpe.htm ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-30-2006 10:06 PM
Here is the entire page.http://users.erols.com/srweiss/index.html#jcalc Have some fun.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-30-2006 10:27 PM
Alex, how much of a difference does the frontal area of a truck compared to a car effect these calculations? Any idea?------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 329.1 RWHP and 299.3 RWTQ 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 01-31-2006 12:31 AM
So the car should run slower than 11.45 but probably makes more than 260RWHP? Not much of a performance predictor then. At least I got the jetting and timing sorted out (I hope). I ran once last October, and, with a slipping tranny all the way down the track, got a 12.22 @ 103. That's 303 FWHP using Alex's calculator. If I could dip into the 11's, I would be very happy. (I was happy when I though I had an 11.43 car- thanks for raining on my parade  )
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JJonesy99
Gearhead Posts: 116
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 02:16 AM
okay Alex, how do I estimate my flywheel HP? I live in Colorado where there is no air. My best time at banimere (5800ft) is 11.94. My RWHP is 367hp, so how can I figure my ET at sea leval or flywheel HP?Thanks,
Jason ------------------
66' stang
408W, C4, 4.11 gears, 11.94 1/4 @113mph
367 RWHP & 373 RWTQ
DAILY DRIVER [This message has been edited by JJonesy99 (edited 01-31-2006).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-31-2006 10:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JJonesy99:
okay Alex, how do I estimate my flywheel HP? I live in Colorado where there is no air. My best time at banimere (5800ft) is 11.94. My RWHP is 367hp, so how can I figure my ET at sea leval or flywheel HP?Thanks,
Jason
You need a correction factor.
I'll look it up.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-31-2006 10:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by f100cleveland:
Alex, how much of a difference does the frontal area of a truck compared to a car effect these calculations? Any idea?
Maybe 5% or so?
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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-31-2006 10:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle:
So the car should run slower than 11.45 but probably makes more than 260RWHP? Not much of a performance predictor then. At least I got the jetting and timing sorted out (I hope). I ran once last October, and, with a slipping tranny all the way down the track, got a 12.22 @ 103. That's 303 FWHP using Alex's calculator. If I could dip into the 11's, I would be very happy. (I was happy when I though I had an 11.43 car- thanks for raining on my parade )
Sorry......  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
prostreeter
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: littleton,co
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 02:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JJonesy99:
okay Alex, how do I estimate my flywheel HP? I live in Colorado where there is no air. My best time at banimere (5800ft) is 11.94. My RWHP is 367hp, so how can I figure my ET at sea leval or flywheel HP?Thanks,
Jason
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prostreeter
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: littleton,co
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 02:10 PM
Jason,The rule of thumb is that you will (should) run a second to a second and a half faster at sea level.It's like a 20% power loss here in denver.
I would think folks on this forum think we have slow clevelands and windsors when we post our times.When in actualality we really have fast cars at normal elevations. Also,even though Denver is 5280 feet above sea level,I have never seen Bandimere less the 9700 feet with the density elevation!
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JJonesy99
Gearhead Posts: 116
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 02:22 PM
Prostreeter, I will agree with you on the DA, every time I raced this year it was anywhere from 9800-over 10,000. Which really sucks cause my car with a 408w running 11.94 looks extremely slow. But hopefully understand where I race at. but I'm planning a trip to california to race this year and see what times I can run at sea leval.Alex, thanks for your help Jonesy ------------------
66' stang
408W, C4, 4.11 gears, 11.94 1/4 @113mph
367 RWHP & 373 RWTQ
DAILY DRIVER
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Hans olsson
Gearhead Posts: 741
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 01-31-2006 03:05 PM
Here is the correction factors.
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/altitude.html------------------
- VIN 1F05M139343
- 71 Mach 1 Ram-Air
- 351C 4V 285 HP
- E,F,G/SA
- Stockers are way cool!
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prostreeter
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: littleton,co
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 03:40 PM
Jason,Do what I did and put a nitrous system on your 408w.We have to do something here in Denver to go fast.Might as well throw some bottled atmosphere into the engine.This new motor I built should run very low 11's to flat 11.Then put nitrous in the mix.Holy S**t,hang on.
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prostreeter
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: littleton,co
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 03:49 PM
BTW Jason,Not too many people wether it be ford,chevy or dodge have an 11/12 second street car like we do here in town.Very,very few people have that fast of a street car.The ones that have those cars are not street driven,not driven to the cruise nite and most definitly trailered to the track.Just a thought.
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JJonesy99
Gearhead Posts: 116
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 04:25 PM
Yeah steve the nitrous will be coming later in the race season. I wanna have a 11.6-7 second DAILY DRIVER at atlitude. I'm gonna have to get with you some time to see the new set-up, sounds like its gonna be scary fast. Yes I agree that alot of guys running king street tow their cars up there and their cars havent seen pavement for serval years. What I like most is that we drive our cars to the track, run 11's, and drive them home Jason ------------------
66' stang
408W, C4, 4.11 gears, 11.94 1/4 @113mph
367 RWHP & 373 RWTQ
DAILY DRIVER
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prostreeter
Gearhead Posts: 243
From: littleton,co
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-31-2006 05:48 PM
To qualify for king street at Bandimere you got to run at least a 12.75.Most street driven cars aren't coming close to that.
I like when people say how in the hell does that small block ford run those numbers.They just dont understand how "special" these clevelands are.
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kcode
Gearhead Posts: 3290
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-31-2006 09:00 PM
Spent a long weekend in Denver in October, first place I went on Saturday was Bandimere, kinda disappointed in some of the times the cars were running, didn't know that the altitude had that much effect. The wifes company HQ is in Littleton, might have to move there in the next couple of years. ------------------
Mike Golliver
MCA Gold Card Judge-Modifieds
65 Kcode coupe 347 stroker modified 5-speed MCA Retired
66 convertible-3 dueces and a 5-speed with a 289
01 Mustang GT Convt
05 F-150 4x4 CrewCab
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Von
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Jay, OK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 02-01-2006 01:06 PM
Alex,About the Weiss calculators, how close do you find the HP/ET calculator to be? Just wondering. Here is the link to the one Im speaking of. http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcehp.htm Thanks [This message has been edited by Von (edited 02-01-2006).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-01-2006 02:16 PM
Based on average weather and wind conditions, dead nuts!------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Kyle
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 02-13-2006 11:23 AM
Update: Took the car to the track for the first time yesterday. Got in 3 passes. Lets just say the car did better than any of us predicted. First pass netted an 11.37 @114! That really suprised me. The 60' time was 1.62. Next pass was just for 60', since the car isn't legal to run that time. Got the best 60' time- a 1.56. Last pass, we went all out, and netted an 11.26 @ 117, with a 1.61 60'! Only change we made from the first pass was up the slick pressures to 15lbs.Now I have to add some tubes to the roll bar and a harness. Also, I picked up a new set of southside uppers and lowers and Jegs traction bars (the ones that move the upper arm higher) for $110. Those should help improve the 60' times, I would think. All in all, a great day!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-13-2006 01:26 PM
Very good.
I guess it validates my opinions of chassis dyno results. (no offence KV)
It all depends on the operator and the correction factors entered.
What do the computer geeks all say?
"garbage in garbage out?"------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
FSTBK65
Gearhead Posts: 232
From: Salem, Virginia 24153
Registered: May 2004
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posted 02-13-2006 03:47 PM
My car dynoed at 368 hp and 378 ftlbs at the wheels. I have run it in the 1/8 and my best time was 8.01 @ 88mph.
What does a 65 Fastback weigh with full interior? It does have aluminum heads and intake. I weigh 190.What should my car run in the 1/8? or in the 1/4? ------------------
65 fastback. 302, Paxton Supercharger 7PSI, Edelbrock heads and intake, comp cam, Motorsport rockers,flowtechs with cutouts, x pipe and 2.5in flowmasters. Subframe connectors and shelby traction bars. 4 speed, hurst shifter,Zoom clutch. 368hp and 378ft lbs at the wheels on pump gas. 8.01 @ 87.72 mph 1/8 mi with a 1.78 60ft.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27572
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-13-2006 03:51 PM
Probably about 3200 pounds.
See the link I posted above for calculations.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
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