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Author
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Topic: Couple of ?'s, Eagle I beam rods, 351 v 393
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Von
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Jay, OK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-25-2006 01:31 PM
   
Got a couple of questions. Im in the process of putting together a 351 or a 393 for my 70 fastback. Anyway, I have a ready to run 351W rotating assembly, KB pistons, football rods, etc. I also have a set of dished DSS pistons to use in a 393. Compression either way will be around 10 to 1.The rest of my combo is a set of Darts that flow 301/215 @.600. Solid roller, 250/260 .575/.585. Vic Jr. that has been ported, Carb will be either a 750 race demon or a 830 DP. 1 3/4 headers. Converter around 3500, 4.11 gear, Im guessing around 3500 lbs?? So to my first question, using the same parts, chassis, etc what would I expect to lose ET wise going with the 351 instead of the 393? Also how much stronger are the Eagle I beams over a set of "football" rods? My dish pistons are press fit so that limits my choices. Further, what ET's would you expect either combo to turn? 11's possible with the 351?? Thanks for the help. [This message has been edited by Von (edited 01-25-2006).]
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-25-2006 05:37 PM
I'm just guessing here, but I would think the 393 would be a good 4-5 tenths faster than the 357 (maybe even more.) The extra cubes will ~like~ the cam better, and will work much better with the tight convertor than the smaller motor. Then add the ~big~ heads into the mix, and the 393 is going to make a lot more power than the 357. The 357 should make decent peak power with those parts, but it's going to want quite a bit more rpm than the 393 would. I wouldn't use stock rods in a stroker. I know a lot of people have good luck with them, but I would rather know the rods aren't the weak link in the system. KK will eventually get a 393 for her upcoming car, and it will get aftermarket rods. The 357 shold be close to getting in the 11's, but I think the big cam coupled with the tight convertor will keep it from getting there.
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scottford351
Gearhead Posts: 118
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 01-25-2006 05:52 PM
I had a stock football rod fail at 6400 in my first 398. It wasn't pretty, it took out the block, cam, timing chain, valves, pushrods, and had to have one head repaired.I put it back together with the Eagle SIR press fit rods and havent had any problems at all. ------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.67@105 1/8 60FT 1.51
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Von
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Jay, OK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-25-2006 06:49 PM
KV,Thanks for your reply. Kinda thought the cam might be a hair small for the 393 and right on for the 351W? The converter stall might actually be more than what Ive listed. Im just going with what PTC suggested for a stall speed. I plan on selling the car after it is tuned/raced a bit and deemed reliable. Im still not sure if I want to spend the extra bucks on the 393, but Id like the car in the 11's so Im leaning towards going that route. Sure is tempting to go with the 351, as it is basically ready to go together.  On the rods, I was afraid that was what would be said. Dang. Thanks for the advice.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-25-2006 07:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Von:
I plan on selling the car after it is tuned/raced a bit and deemed reliable.
Well then, that changes everything.  If it were me and that was the plans, I would build what I had parts for.
You know, it might run in the 11's with the 357 as it is now. I have no doubt it would easily if the convertor would stall around 4500. As for the cam, the only real experiance with windsors I have is KK's motor, and your cam is substantially bigger than that one (her's is a solid flat tappet that is 242/244 @ .050 .) Her car should be a 12 flat car (might even dip into the 11's in really good air), and it uses ported factory heads. However, her convertor stalls 4800 rpm.
Given the better heads and bigger plus roller cam, yours might get into the 11's with the 357.
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JJonesy99
Gearhead Posts: 114
From: Lakewood, CO USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-25-2006 07:11 PM
okay i may be able to help a little with my personal experience. I had a 351w withe RPM heads and manifold, 4.11 gears, 3000 stall, solid cam .533/.533 lift, race shocks and mono leaf springs and the fastest I ran was 13.74. But I race at Bandimere with 5800ft of elevation. People say the elevation is good for a second.Then I blew it up and built a 408w with victor jr heads,RPM air gap manifold, roller cam with 238/242 dur & .555/.575 lift, same gears, stall and springs and was able to run a 11.94 at 5800 elevation. Hope this helps,
Jason ------------------
66' stang
408W, C4, 4.11 gears, 11.94 1/4 @113mph
367 RWHP & 373 RWTQ
DAILY DRIVER
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Von
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Jay, OK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-26-2006 12:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Well then, that changes everything. If it were me and that was the plans, I would build what I had parts for. You know, it might run in the 11's with the 357 as it is now. I have no doubt it would easily if the convertor would stall around 4500. As for the cam, the only real experiance with windsors I have is KK's motor, and your cam is substantially bigger than that one (her's is a solid flat tappet that is 242/244 @ .050 .) Her car should be a 12 flat car (might even dip into the 11's in really good air), and it uses ported factory heads. However, her convertor stalls 4800 rpm.
Given the better heads and bigger plus roller cam, yours might get into the 11's with the 357.
Looser converter it is!!! That should fix all of my problems, 'cept throwing a football rod at 7k. Oh well, I wont have much $$$$ in the shortblock, so what the heck. Thanks for the help.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3221
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-26-2006 04:56 PM
Haw many cc?s are the pistons dished? The rods are the same between the 351 and the 393 but the pistons are different. This will greatly affect your compression ratio one way or the other. I think the 393 pistons used in the 351 would give you a real low compression ratio.[This message has been edited by 68 S-code GT (edited 01-26-2006).]
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Von
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Jay, OK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-26-2006 06:17 PM
Ive got two sets of pistons. One set of dish pistons for a 393 and a set of flat tops for a 351.
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Catmando
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-29-2006 01:03 AM
Have the same question as Von, hoping to make about 450hp to 500hp out of a .30 over 351, Canfield heads and about 12 to 1 compression. Bracket motor. If I polish the beams and shot peen the stock rods, will they live?? This will be the most serious motor I have ever built, so I don't really have a clue if they will be ok.
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