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Author Topic:   Drag race suspension set up tips
ericcasas
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-08-2005 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ericcasas   Click Here to Email ericcasas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have very embarrassing 60 foot times that I'm trying to fix. Heres a quick rundown. My best 60 foot time to date was 2.02. That was with a shot equa-lock w/ 3.25:1 gears on stock suspension with new 275 Nitto 555 drag radials and these traction bars:

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

These were actually modeled after the ones from a Sunbeam Tiger. I have originals off a Sunbeam tiger and have been running these since 1988! Anyway, here is what I've done to help fix my problem:

Took out equa-lock and replaced with Detriot Locker with 4.10 gears. Sold Nitto's and went with 26 x 11.5 M/T ET Streets. Competition Engineering drag shocks 90/10 front, 50/50 rear. Removed sway bar. My last time out at the track, I snapped a u-joint on my first run. LMAO!! I was pissed. Trailered my car an hour and a half for that?!?!!? I think I need to work on my leaf springs and my coils because they are original '67 equipment. On a different thread, everyone suggested 6 cylinder springs, but I just found out that a 67 Stang w/ a 289 and a manual trans comes stock w/ the same springs used in all of the 6 cylinder models. (I have a transplanted 351W btw.) Anyway, my goal is to have a 1.6 60 foot time spraying a little bit at the launch. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for reading this long arse post.

-E

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warhorse1
Journeyman

Posts: 87
From: camino
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 11-08-2005 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for warhorse1   Click Here to Email warhorse1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you might find this helpful

http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/info/Launching_A_Drag_Car.htm
............Jay

------------------
I know my limits....I just pass-out before I reach them
.45 the original point and click !!!
Run what ya brung and hope like hell ya brought enough.
Proudly annoying the neighbors for over 30 years
NEVER confuse education with wisdom !!!

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-08-2005 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericcasas:
...My last time out at the track, I snapped a u-joint on my first run.

...I think I need to work on my leaf springs...

...67 Stang w/ a 289 and a manual trans....
...my goal is to have a 1.6 60 foot time...

I'm open to suggestions. -E



Eric,

You didn't mention it, so I'll ask: Have you braced your leaf spring perches at the housing yet? If not, do a M&M 'Search' and seriously consider it.

How about a driveshaft safety loop? If not, sounds like you're past due for that! You may want to consider upgrading to Severe-Duty U-joints.

What about axles - are you running 28-spline OEM axles? If so, before you twist them up, you may also consider switching them out and moving up to aftermarket axles; or up to even stronger axles by moving up to a 31 or 33-spline axles, but then you'd need to up-size your Detroit Locker as well.

Do you have a 8" or 9" rearend?

Are the ET Streets spinning or not when you launch it on the ET Streets?

Maybe look into some Rancho adjustable rear shocks....

Jack up your front end and see how free your front syspension hangs. You may want to consider some heim joint lower control arms or bronze-bushed coil spring perches to loosen up the front suspension & get the front up quickly and the weight transferring backwards at launch.

Just some ideas,,,,
Ryan

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XR7
Gearhead

Posts: 148
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-08-2005 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for XR7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The reason you threw the driveline is most likely in-correct pinion angle and/or a weak u-joint. I had 1350 solid u-joints and still threw the driveline because I had too much pinion angle a few years back. I also rolled the leaf spring perches and had to straighten those out and weld in some gussets on the back. I added 4 degree wedge shims to get -3 degree pinion angle and have never had another driveline problem. 60 ft times come with weight transfer, both front and rear suspension tuning is important. There is tons of info on this, your springs are probably fine. Put Caltracs on the back and 90/10 on the front, make sure the front is free and has at least 5" travel for starters.

------------------
68 Cougar XR7, 428 4-speed, Best ET 6.82 @ 101 1/8, 10.69@ 127.44 with 1.51 60 ft. Street legal all steel car w/ full interior.

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ericcasas
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-08-2005 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ericcasas   Click Here to Email ericcasas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW guys... that is a lot of info to absorb. O.K. Here goes:

I did have cheap cast iron u-joints (with grease passages) and I'm pretty sure that is why it snapped. I have a driveshaft safety loop BUT it is sitting in the garage collecting dust. >8\ I since went to Brute Force solid drop forged U-joints front and back and dont see how these big ol thick u-joints wont be able to hold. I look at my pinion angle and it seems solid. I dont know how to measure other than by looking at the vehicle under a load and empty. I haven't had a chance to take the car out, do a burnout, and then see how the tires would hook under a 'drag launch' condition. I can't answer the question about them spinning or not. I would like to think that they would spin quite a bit. I usually rev up to around 5K RPM and then just dump the clutch. (I shift right around 7K.) I haven't even finished putting in the Detroit Locker yet. It is a 28 spline on a 9" rear. I just got this whole set up so I want to stick with it for a while. The day I go to a 33 spline axle is the day I will probably go coil-over and mini-tub as well. That will more than likely be a few years down the road. About the leaf spring perches, they are not braced to my knowledge. I totally see why they would need it but honestly have never heard of anyone doing it. I will look for that thread and read about it. I guess my plan of action will be this:

1.) Keep my current front springs per your advice.

2.) Get new 5 leaf 'stiff' rear leafs per the advice found on the baselinesuspensions.com link provided by Warhorse.

3.) Brace my leaf spring perches and install driveshaft loop.

4.) Check my front suspension for free movement to make sure it's not binding up on me anywhere.

Anyone else have anything to add??

-Eric

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-08-2005 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericcasas:

"I have a driveshaft safety loop BUT it is sitting in the garage collecting dust."

-- OK, fine. Now make a plan to get it installed BEFORE you need it again....... If you were only running normal street tires, I wouldn't worry 'cause then they'd be your 'weak link', but because you're running a manual trans and ET Streets, I'd get the loop installed. It goes 6" behind the front U-joint. Get it in BEFORE you do the next burnout with the ET Streets on.


"I look at my pinion angle and it seems solid. I dont know how to measure other than by looking at the vehicle under a load and empty."

-- Borrow an angle finder or go to Sears and buy one. Here's what you are looking for - click here: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00939830000&subcat=Levels+%26+Protractors


"I haven't had a chance to take the car out, do a burnout, and then see how the tires would hook under a 'drag launch' condition. I can't answer the question about them spinning or not."

-- Ok, fine. After you've installed the driveshaft safety loop and had the spring perches reinforced, then take a friend with you to the track; (just because you can spin 'em in some parking lot, doesn't mean you'll spin 'em at the track after doing the burnbox) and have your friend watch your tires when you launch.


"I usually rev up to around 5K RPM and then just dump the clutch. (I shift right around 7K.)"

-- You may want to lower your launch rpm a tad, it will be dependent on whether or not your spinning at launch. You want to adjust your launch rpm so you only spin the ET Streets maybe a half of revolution.


"I haven't even finished putting in the Detroit Locker yet."

-- I read that you REPLACED the equa-loc with the DL.... Apparently that isn't quite correct. YOU'RE GOING TO replace it with the DL. OK...fine.


"It is a 28 spline on a 9" rear."

-- Ok, so they're 28-spline and it's a 9" rearend. Are they OEM axles? If so, again I'll say you may want to seriously consider selling them while they're still straight and upgrading to some Moser or other aftermarket axles that are not 25+yr old.


"About the leaf spring perches, they are not braced to my knowledge. I totally see why they would need it but honestly have never heard of anyone doing it. I will look for that thread and read about it."

-- If you didn't brace the perches, then it's pretty likely that they aren't braced. Read about it here:

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/010160.html


"I guess my plan of action will be this:

3. Brace my leaf spring perches and install driveshaft loop."

-- I'd move this task to #1, Bub!


I agree with XR7, CalTracs would work better than the old Traction Masters that you have now.... but, all in due time. Once you determine your pinion angle (with the tool, not by eye) then you may need to install some wedges as he also indicated.

It'll all come together in good time. Most of all, remember, 'Safety First' & try not to wreck stuff. Save/budget the funds for the parts while still keeping milk in the frig and soup in the carboard and then upgrade your drivetrain gear as you go. Then you can sell off the OEM stuff before it gets twisted or broken.

Besides, having a broken car at the track is NO fun at all. Even if you have a car trailer, you still need to get it loaded!

GOOD LUCK!
Ryan

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numbchuk
Journeyman

Posts: 40
From: lou,ky,usa
Registered: Oct 2005

posted 11-08-2005 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for numbchuk   Click Here to Email numbchuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
caltracs good, they helped me a little. i dont spray my motor but i can get high 1.6's and its not enough. i want it under 1.65. ive got the landrum multileaf drag springs out back now, i wish i had the monoleafs. i think that's what alex runs and if he says they are stick car friendly, im going to get them. i kissed my 28 spline axles goodbye a few years ago when i twisted the splines on the left axle. i been through 3 driveshafts. the only u-joints that last are the dana/spicers. detroit locker is good, you will eventually smoke the trac-loc. with a stick car i run the et streets instead of the nitto's. the cars that have to run drag radials in class racing usually have some kind of timing retard device to help them launch without going up in smoke and most of them run automatics. if you are shifting at 7k you must have one hell of a cam. also, what was said about gusseting your spring perches is a good idea. good luck.

------------------
"back then i could throw a football a quarter mile....i bet i could throw a football over those mountains."

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ericcasas
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-08-2005 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ericcasas   Click Here to Email ericcasas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah guys, I've got my work cut out for me. I'm going to print this thread out so I can knock this stuff out one by one. I actually have the car on jacks in the garage, the Detriot Locker is still in the box and I plan on having it put in this week. About my axles, yes they are OEM. About my launches, I should only get about half a tire spin w/ these tires??!?! WOW. I thought they should actually make a few rotations! No?? I dont bracket race or anything like that. I just like to go to 'test and tune' nights and have fun w/ friends. About the broken car at the track, tell me about it, dude. I'm telling you....ITS THE WORST. I have to take time off work, go across town to rent a trailer, then I have to get all my stuff packed, drive damn near 2 hours to Seguin, TX just to break out on my first launch. Thank god I roll deep so I had a bunch of buddies help roll the car back up on the trailer. Well, Ryan (and the rest of you) thanks for all of the advice. I just needed to be pointed in the right direction. This project should keep me busy for a while.

-Eric

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-09-2005 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericcasas:

I thought they should actually make a few rotations! No??


Eric,
If you're spinning your ET Streets, you're not moving forward as quickly as you should!

GOOD LUCK and keep us posted on your progress!
Ryan

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numbchuk
Journeyman

Posts: 40
From: lou,ky,usa
Registered: Oct 2005

posted 11-10-2005 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for numbchuk   Click Here to Email numbchuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here's what im learning the hard way. in a stick car that's launching at high rpm, somethings gotta give if it dont break. either your gonna spin your tire over a little before it dead hooks OR your gonna have a clutch that slips, whether on purpose or by being shot. super stock stick guys launch their smallblocks upstairs and keep them there with an adjustable pressure plate that slips a little. dont worry about your tires turning over a couple times when you launch. practice with your suspension settings, tire pressure, and launch rpm and see what works and dont worry about it. it used to drive me nuts. my setup doesnt let the clutch slip much. the plate is so stiff it really taxes the linkage, as well as your leg,n and its an 11 inch. i try to launch it so it recovers on the cam where the sweetest spot is and then try to adjust the tire pressure till it 60ft's the best.

------------------
"back then i could throw a football a quarter mile....i bet i could throw a football over those mountains."

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seefour
Journeyman

Posts: 26
From: Brenham Texas
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 11-10-2005 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seefour   Click Here to Email seefour     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Give me a call, Im in Brenham Texas. 1.2 hrs away. I have what you need for sale was cutting 1.46 60 fts on 68 mustang
979-251-8992
Mike S

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