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Author
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Topic: Need more help, ready to give up!
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 11:51 AM
   
Went to the track last night. It's a 35 mile trip each way. On the highway the car did great.
First run car bogged real bad off the line,left like a bus. Warmed up the MT power braked it to 2200rpm and floored it.Every little tire spin.
At about 5500rpm the motor would slow down,like it wasn't getting enough gas. Second run the car started puking coolant temp gauge said it was at 180 but the motor seemed a lot hotter. 3rd run left at 2400rpm thats all I can stall it. Bogged real bad left real slow,loss power above 5000rpm. The headers were getting hot enough to melt some wire loom that are 4-5" from them???
I don't no why my headers get so darn hot? Only one run the timer was working ran a 14.9 @ 84mph 2.15 60' I shut down alittle to early didn't know where the finishline was?  I'm so disapointed with every thing right now. 
Car has the idle problem I can't fix, headers keep melting stuff, power is off etc?
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-06-2005).]
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johnmustang
Gearhead Posts: 6061
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 12:05 PM
I am no expert, but I would look at your timing first and make sure that you are properly set. Make sure that your carb is not to fat and that your coil is in proper working order. Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head. I am sure that the more experienced guys will get you fixed up in no time.------------------
JOHN
65 FASTBACK 2+2
87 TAURUS WAGON
03 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4 SHORT BOX
Member: PACIFIC COAST MUSTANG ASSOCIATION
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
65 FASTBACK
2003 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 02:27 PM
The best part of the night. Was watching my dad in his mostly stock 88GT vert beat a new GTO by half car.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 02:28 PM
I almost traded my 65 for a mini van last night.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 7221
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 08-06-2005 03:18 PM
WATCH YO MOUF BOY!!!! ------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60ft 50 % of the fun dragracing is meeting people who will give you the shirt off their back to wipe the grease off your hands.
M&M member #839 http://perfectrun.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/images/smiles/icon_5usaribbon.gif
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 723
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 03:49 PM
Sounds like timing or fuel pressure leaning it out. What was MPH? Stock fuel pump and lines? Alot of timing will cause it to flatten out at top of rpm ran, I found that out car slowed 2 tenths. Using vacuum advance? I know it shouldn't effect it at full throttle but just a guess. FiveO fastback and I are going to Island Dragway in the AM to see what improvements will net. Hopefully better 60's and awhole lot of ET reduction. Hopefully tech is in a good mood. WIll post results tomorrow evening.
BTW NO MINI VANS!!!!------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous system, Dynomax ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 hp at the rear motor only 13.25 @103mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed, 88 GT 5 spd 77k original miles Red and Silver
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 04:20 PM
Tom, I'm running 15@ idle and 37 total timing. Vacuum advanced plugged.Carter street pump with 3/8" fuel line from tank to carb. I have 6.5psi at idle-3000rpm. I did have the floats set alittle low. MPH 84.5 I don't know what happen? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 04:21 PM
Any idea's on the headers getting really hot? They don't glow red, but they do melt wire loom.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 723
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 04:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Tom, I'm running 15@ idle and 37 total timing. Vacuum advanced plugged.Carter street pump with 3/8" fuel line from tank to carb. I have 6.5psi at idle-3000rpm. I did have the floats set alittle low. MPH 84.5 I don't know what happen?
Read your plugs I bet its leaning out. 84mph? Did you have the E brake on?
One other thing to check are the throttle blades fully open? mine were not using the small linkage hole on the Holley Justa somethin to check.[This message has been edited by Tom G (edited 08-06-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 04:51 PM
Tom you have no idea how upset I was when I saw that. I let off the gas and started on the brakes about 100-150 before the finish line. I haven't ran this track before. It's kinda of a low budget track. Not alot of lights so I was worried about stopping in time. The next run I made I went to the finish line but the timings system went down.  The plugs are alittle rich to the first ring and then are look good. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-06-2005 05:31 PM
Ron,I see You have been spending a bunch of money but,I think You need a bigger pump the outlet on that pump is 1/4"npt that is pretty small, I would go with a Holley red or blue pump they have 3/8npt and go with 110 needle and seats in the carb.If You want to try...I have a Holley red pump I haven't put on the 89 Mustang yet,You can try it to see if it will correct the problem,all it will cost You is shipping!A cheap way to see before You buy one.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-06-2005 06:16 PM
John, Not ready to plumb for an electric pump yet. 
Thanks for the offer, I'll try raising the floats to were they should be first.Whats the best Mechanical pump for a Street/strip car? My carter pump is about 5 years old.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-06-2005).] [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-06-2005).]
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 212
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 08-06-2005 07:05 PM
Carter M60968[This message has been edited by afret (edited 08-07-2005).]
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9476
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 08-06-2005 11:05 PM
Ron,My other car is doing fine with a Holley mechanical pump sucking thru AN-8 line from the fuel cell. It runs 11.16s at 119 mph so far.  Mell's 'stang uses a stock tank with 3/8 S.S. tubing and a Holley Red in back pushing to a mechanical pump up front. Best of 10.60s at 124 mph. SteveW
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 02:04 PM
Ok, how about the extra heat from the headers ?
I've melted 3 plug boots that were covered with heat shocks?
I talked to a lot of guys at Hot August Nights none said they have that problem?Timing, even with a new motor with all new parts. Could the balancer be off, and giving a true timing reading. Should I just advance the timing to highest rpm and leave there? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 02:47 PM
Your problem sounds like a fuel delivery problem. When the carb runs out of fuel and goes lean the exhaust temp goes through the roof, hence melted stuff.Set your timing at total advance. Run the rpm to a point that all of the advance curve is in and set the total timing where you want it. Don't worry about the initial. It would be a good idea to check the timing marks to see how they relate to piston TDC. You can do this with a bolt run into the spark plug hole to be the piston stop. Crank the engine around by hand until the piston on #1 hits the bolt. Mark the spot on the damper where the timing pointer is. Reverse direction and turn the engine backwards by hand until is stops again. Mark this spot. the TDC location is the mid point between these two marks. I also think you need a looser converter for racing. You are at that point where you need to decide whether to make it a race car that can be driven on the street or a street that does not run the quarter as well as it should. Don't get frustrated, just decide which is the correct path for you and go there and resign yourself to the limitations inherent in your choice. Mostly, have a good time, that is what this car stuff is all about anyway. John [This message has been edited by JCQuinn@work (edited 08-07-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 02:58 PM
Right now John, I want a car that runs the best it can. That also can be driven on the street any day of the week. I don't want to worry about over heating,bad idle,sitting in traffic, or long highway drives.
I'm hoping to run in the 12's at 4200feet.
I'm thinking a 3000-3500stall and some 3.7-3.89 gears will help?As for fuel delivery do I just need a better fuel pump? "Don't get frustrated, just decide which is the correct path for you and go there and resign yourself to the limitations inherent in your choice."
I'll try harder
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-07-2005).]
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-07-2005 05:01 PM
Ron, I Just thought of something...How much vacuum do You have when the car is at Idle and in drive? You maybe lower than the 15" and openning the power valve dumping more fuel onto the Engine at a idle or with your foot on the brakes sitting at a stoplight,Your stock converter could be pulling down Your Engine at very low speeds making your Engine to run rich.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:11 PM
John, last I checked the vacuum at idle was around 15. I'm running a 6.5pv now.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
IP: Logged |
Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 723
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:20 PM
Well don't feel too bad Scoop! WE ran 2 passes today and none in the 12's. MPH was great though. 111MPH on the juice late in 3rd and 4th. Second pass the bottle was dry, we didn't fill it prior to or post dyno runs. I bogged the car on the first pass and the 60ft sucked 1.99, 1000ft was 11.67 and 13.11 et@111 I.m waiting till cooler weather to try it again. This time with a full bottle and 100 shot in the plate.------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous system, Dynomax ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 hp at the rear motor only 13.25 @103mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed, 88 GT 5 spd 77k original miles Red and Silver
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-07-2005 05:21 PM
This could be happining to because your cam requires a little bit of a stall convt...You drive your car through the pits at a slow speed to the stagging lanes (and the engine is running rich) do a burnout it cleans the Engine out,stage the car it again starts to load up with fuel,light turns green You take off as You go down the 1/4 Your Engine starts to run lean (because of the Fuel Pump pressure and gph)on the return road and driving back to the pits (the Engine starts to run rich because of converter and the slower speeds)You shut off the engine and check the plugs and they are black. I know this could be a long shot, but it could be happining.
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Right now John, I want a car that runs the best it can. That also can be driven on the street any day of the week. I don't want to worry about over heating,bad idle,sitting in traffic, or long highway drives.
I'm hoping to run in the 12's at 4200feet.
I'm thinking a 3000-3500stall and some 3.7-3.89 gears will help?As for fuel delivery do I just need a better fuel pump? "Don't get frustrated, just decide which is the correct path for you and go there and resign yourself to the limitations inherent in your choice."
I'll try harder
So what you want is a hot street car. Make a plan by talking to others who are doing this and decide what is right for you. A plan is way better than just making changes. Advice from others who have done the same thing is very valuable. I am going to try to make one of these for myself but that won't be until after my race car is finished. I have no experience with performance converters that stall below 6500 so I am not an experienced helper here. I have run 4.11 and 4.56 gears in street cars and consider them the best performance boost for low money. Both of those cars were stick shifts so I don't have any advice for an automatic setup other than the gear change should be taken into consideration when planning the converter upgrade. There are a lot of posters here who have run converters on the street although most of them seem to fear the gear. All my cars back as far as I can remember have had electric fuel pumps. If you must stick with a mechanical listen to John Holloway and Steve66. they gave good advice above. Good luck and have fun. Just remember how happy you were when you first got this engine. All these troubles are small although frustrating. John
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-07-2005 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
John, last I checked the vacuum at idle was around 15. I'm running a 6.5pv now.
Yes Ron...But was it in park or drive. In Drive the Engine is at a lower rpm and it should be a lower vacuum #'s My MustangII runs so much better with a 3000 stall than with the stock converter.Before I couldn't do a brake tork the engine ran crummy and die's trying to do a burnout, with the stall now it does a very nice burnout and the engine sounds great and dosen't die.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:40 PM
John H, I agree that a higher stall should be next. At the track my car also tried to die after burn out. I also noticed last night the car was learching forward sitting at a stop light, like the motor was over coming the convertor? It's done it that one time.
So you think I should try a 4.5pv?
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:48 PM
JohnQ, Yeah I want a hot street/strip car. Being that I can only make it to the track a few times year. I love driving my car, and still LOVE the new motor. It's just hard to put some much time and money into it and see that it was only worth .09 off the ET.
I would be happy with 12's for now. Some reason I've always wanted a 12 second street car. Maybe once I'm there I'll want more.  I'm trying to make a plan by talking to those that are there. The problem I have is they all have SO many different opinions and advice.You have either racers,or cruisers and they never seem to agree. I don't know much about convertors,just know I'd like to try a higher stalling one. I'm not afford of the gear,but some many street guys tell me NOT to go over 3.50 for a street car, and the racers say anything under 3.90 is for the freeway.
I don't want to have to trailer the car the 40 miles to the track. But my wife and I did get her truck based on the fact it could tow my 65 if needed.
I can't afford to the do gears and convertor both this winter, so which one should I do first? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 05:52 PM
With an eletric fuel pump do I need to run a returnline? How about if I add a red pump do I need a return line?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1888
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-07-2005 05:57 PM
Most fuel injected cars don't need a return line with thier electric fuel pumps.
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-07-2005 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
John H, I agree that a higher stall should be next. At the track my car also tried to die after burn out. I also noticed last night the car was learching forward sitting at a stop light, like the motor was over coming the convertor? It's done it that one time.
So you think I should try a 4.5pv?
Ron,try this hook-up a vacuum gauge have someone sit in the car, start the engine and put it in drive with there foot on the brakes when they do this You read the vacuum gauge and see what it reads, I will put in a power valve that is 2" less than what the vacuum gauge says...If in drive your gauge says 8" I will put in a 5.5-6.0 power valve,You want to make sure the power valve is closed when the engine is at a idle and the trans in in drive...Just like when you are in bumper to bumper trafic or at a stop light.In my MustangII I run a 302 flattop pistons,TrickFlow heads,lunati 480 lift cam,holley 600dp carb,holley red pump,C-4 3000 stall,3:70 gear with 31-16.5 MT Sportsman this is a driver unless It's a 2 day show out of my area 50 miles or more than I will trailer it because my spark plug gap is thicker than my floor(i have a .030 aluminum floor) and it's polished aluminum so I don't put lugage and tools on the floor I have a dent in the floor from doing this! (even with wrapping the rollbar with towls and blankets on the aluminum it still put a little ding in the floor).
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 930
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 08-07-2005 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
With an eletric fuel pump do I need to run a returnline? How about if I add a red pump do I need a return line?
I don't have a return line.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 06:45 PM
Ok thanks no return line then. Good news is the new tires work awesome. The MT ET radials hook great,ride real nice and handle just fine. On the highway driving at 60-70mph the tires felt solid and very stamble. I had to drive home in the rain last night. I was worried about the small fronts and the ET drags. But they did great just have to leave easy and all is fine. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 723
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 07:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
With an eletric fuel pump do I need to run a returnline? How about if I add a red pump do I need a return line?
No return line needed. Just make sure electrical system is up to the extra load.
3/8 aluminum fuel line is more than adequate
for a street/strip car. I'm running the red pump and a regulator just for the nitrous as the recommendation is for 5.5 psi I have it set to 6 at idle.
Don't worry bud the people on this forum will get you on the right and fast track. Look at it this way I spent over 600 bucks on a nitrous kit and parts and only picked up a tenth today but mph was up by almost 8. You'll get it right. Maybe a dyno tune is the answer for some of your problems that would make it easier to find the lean out problem. The dyno tune for me found my air fuel ration at over 15.5 to one in the middle of the power band. She is straighten out now and throttle response is much better. It was my dum fault for not having the bottle refilled after the dyno time so we payed the price in et. I also bogged the car off the line as the 60 foot showed. Make one change at a time and document the results. I know you keep a record of most everything you do or have done to your car. But don't get disappointed the car will eventually be RIGHT and you will get it there thru perseverence and patience. Have a good night!
Tom ------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous system, Dynomax ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 hp at the rear motor only 13.25 @103mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed, 88 GT 5 spd 77k original miles Red and Silver [This message has been edited by Tom G (edited 08-07-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 08:23 PM
Thanks Tom
I would go to a dyno, but there isn't any around here right now.Your 111mph looks real good to me.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-07-2005 10:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
JohnQ,
I'm trying to make a plan by talking to those that are there. The problem I have is they all have SO many different opinions and advice.You have either racers,or cruisers and they never seem to agree. I don't know much about convertors,just know I'd like to try a higher stalling one. I'm not afford of the gear,but some many street guys tell me NOT to go over 3.50 for a street car, and the racers say anything under 3.90 is for the freeway.
I don't want to have to trailer the car the 40 miles to the track. But my wife and I did get her truck based on the fact it could tow my 65 if needed.
I can't afford to the do gears and convertor both this winter, so which one should I do first?
Get all the opinions then make your own plan, all us other people don't really know what makes you happy. When I ran the 4.11 and 4.56 rears on the street they were my only cars. I drove the 4.11 car from Denver to Salt Lake and back a couple of times. I also drove them to the track which was much closer than Salt Lake. When I was starting out with cars in the 50'smost cars had about a 3.50 from the factory and running 4.11's was a common thing. I know either the gear or the higher stall converter will wake the car up. I'm just guessing but I think the converter should come first. What you are seeing with a motor that clearly makes more power than the old one but runs nearly the same ET is that the whole package must work together. There is a lot of ET left in the car but you will have to get the traction issue solved and I think the converter will do that. I would also recommend doing the tune up at the track. Dyno setups are often not right for running down the track. John
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N266fords
Gearhead Posts: 1652
From: Sierra Vista ,Az USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-08-2005 01:41 AM
Ron you are being to hard on yourself. Relax Take a break.
You said you ran only one time on the clock. you also said that you got off the gas and on the brakes real short. the win lite is first but the mph light is after the win light after the 1320 mark so Next time stay in it a little longer and you will be shocked at your mph. Your car is going to be fine. I also agree that you are leaning out and thats why you are glowing headers.
bruce
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-08-2005 02:43 AM
Bruce your so right about relaxing. I'm lucky enough to have the car in the first place. John, if you guys don't know then who does? I'm thinking a convertor first too. But what stall? Ok every one agree's on the red pump so thats what I'll get next. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-08-2005).]
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-08-2005 11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
I'm thinking a convertor first too. But what stall?
Talk to the company you are going to buy the converter from. They probably sell lots of converters to hot street cars.
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gunrocker
Gearhead Posts: 536
From: Colliers, WV,USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 08-08-2005 11:53 AM
Ron...What stall are you running now?
Is it the stock converter?
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-08-2005 04:10 PM
It's a 2000-2500 stall convertor.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-08-2005 04:30 PM
I didn't make his day
Those new Vett motored super charged Caddys are fast but not fast enough.
The guy was cool enough to pull over and BS with me alittle.He couldn't believe how mild my car was,he keeped looking for the hinden N2o. The best thing he said was "I'll think twice before taking on another Mustang" http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0503_fs_stsv/ ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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GregK
Gearhead Posts: 221
From: Clear Spring, Md
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 08-08-2005 04:51 PM
Ron take a look at my combo in my sig. I run 4.11 gears with a 3500 stall converter on the street with no problems. This past weekend I ran my best ever in the heat. 11.68 at 114.99 mph. I changed from a mechanical fan to an electric and what a difference. ------------------
1968 coupe 351W, Bored.030,Stock Crank, Eagle I beam rods,Decked,KB Hyper. flat top pistons. Total Seal rings. Bullet Cam 231/[email protected]/.541 lift,AFR 185 Heads,RPM Air Gap,BG 750 Speed Demon,MSD Ignition,C4 Trans.,9" rear with 4.11 posi.MT 275/60/15 Drag Radials (Engine dynoed at 420 hp/420 tq.)11.745 @ 113.89 in the 1/4 on 93 octane pump gas
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-08-2005 04:56 PM
Greg thanks that helps
How much compression do you run? I'd think my motor would be closer to 360-380hp. With about 9.75-1 compression and a milder cam then yours.How far do you drive the car on the highway? Also do you cruise it and sit in traffic in 100 degree heat?
So the 4.11's and 3500 stall don't seem to much for the street? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 209
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 08-08-2005 07:38 PM
Do you have an external fuel pressure gauge that you can see when you are driving?(Like mounted on the hood, or one that is designed to be mounted inside the car) The ONLY way to know for sure if you are sucking the Carb dry and not getting enough fuel to it(whether its the pump, the line diameter, plugged filter, whatever) is to mount an external fuel pressure gauge that you can look at as you are running at the strip. The same thing that happened to you was happening to me with my old 289. I mounted a fuel pressure gauge (ran the line through the cowl, and mounted to the louvers right outside the windshield). Sure enough, at about 3/4 track, the pressure went from 6 lbs to 0 lbs, and it nosed over and made zero power. The fuel pump was marginal. I put in a new Edelbrock pump, and been fine ever since. Stock lines from the tank to the pump, AN-6 lines from the pump to the carb. Still maintains pressure on my new 331 roller that runs 12.59@111. Put a gauge on and measure the pressure, everything else is a guess. Can put the whole thing in for about 60 bucks.
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Catmando
Gearhead Posts: 181
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-09-2005 09:49 PM
Really check your suspicions on your balancer / timing marks. Is your car hard to crank over when hot?? I beat myself up and my car for a couple of months with similar symptoms. It was a big block put into a fox stang. Turns out the stock balancer rubber was spinning throwing my timing waaaay off. I think I was running probably up into around 50 deg. timing. Symptoms: very hard hot start , engine created a ton of heat, lost power at or around 4000rpm. Ran ok under part throttle / low load. Once I found out the problem I replaced the balancer which cured the problem.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6000
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 08-10-2005 01:07 AM
ScoopYour car sounds leaner than Lindsay Lohan though i can't imagine how it could be if it's tuned for normal driving. You must have ran at the Friday night drags at Fernely, eh? It was probably 100 degrees out... it's not called HOT August Nights because it freezes... and Fernley is UPHILL! Letting off that early kills the MPH more so than ET but with the likely density altitude, the uphill track and letting off you can't compare this to a good run at a cool sea level track at all. Hot thin air usually means you need to lean it out so unless it was waaaay lean before it could be something else.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-10-2005 02:39 AM
Tom, yes it was at Fernly in the high 80's to low 90's that night. Humid out to because it had been raining on and off. I did set both floats lower then normal to try and find an idle problem I've had. So could it be it just ran out of fuel in the bowl?Catmando, yes I've been having a real hard time with hot starting too. And some run on after I turn it off. But it's been real hot here too. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-10-2005).]
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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead Posts: 180
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-11-2005 01:09 AM
Sounds like slow timing to me. If the fuel were that lean you'd be hearing detonation and probable popping back through the intake. You'd probably be seeing some globs of throw-off on the plugs. I would check that damper ring and pointer by running #1 piston to TDC. Then double check your light. Does it have an inductive pich-up? Retarded timing will put a ton of heat in the exhaust and run like a turd with few other symptoms. Like I said, if the fuel is way lean, you'll generally see many symptoms.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-11-2005 01:27 PM
Yes it has an inductive pick-up, I did just find out it's not working all the time. The light will work but once you turn the dial to read the advance the light goes on and off.
I'll get a new light,check my balancer,then recheck the timing. The balancer is a new Ford racing unit. The machine said they checked the blancer for TDC before the let me take the motor.
If it all checks out good then what?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 209
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 08-11-2005 06:28 PM
I still think you should check the fuel pressure. Mine showed no other issues on the plugs or anything. Not until I put a fuel pressure gauge, did it show that at the top of the strip, the pump could not keep up. Easy, cheap , and a good insurance policy against running lean because of a pressure problem. Just my 2 cents worth.
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 800
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-11-2005 07:45 PM
Ron,I've been where you are many times. I go to the track about as much as you. I really just like having a fast street car that I can autocross & drag when I get a chance. Mostly I just like to drive with the windows rolled down on nice days and wave to all the nice folks who drive by and appreciate the car. I remember all the times I was broke and my car needed this or that to make it run. It was never perfect but eventually I got it to be reliable. It hasn't had any problems for the last three years(fingers crossed). It wasn't until I had replaced almost everything of the car that it finally stopped having the problems you describe. Going to the horrible fuel injection system(old Holley projection) I have now was probably not a great move for performance but the best change I ever made to drive it around on the street. It along with the hard suspension are probably why my car is slower than it should be. I don't mind though because it runs nice and doesn't give me any trouble. As I mentioned to you before I am doing a bunch more mods to the car so maybe my problems will start all over again. Gears are a personal thing. For me anything more than 3.25 would be too much to drive around with unless I had overdrive. Your 3.40 should be plenty. I tried 3.50s for awhile but I didn't care for them and went back to 3.00s. I have a very low first gear(3.27) though so I have more flexibility. I think the advice you have gotten so far is good and will likely get you the results you want. I just wanted to stay stick with it. When it is all over it's worth it. Sometimes I think it is all the aggrivation that makes the classics such a pleasure to own.... in hindsight offcourse!
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-11-2005 08:05 PM
Thanks
Just so you all know. I plan to check everything that you guys have said to check. I'm starting with an all MSD ignition system, 6al box, dist and coil. I'll check and or replace all the ignitoining wiring.
Next step I'll check my fuel pressure at all rpms. I now have 6.5psi at idle-5000rpm while in park no load on motor.
I'll add a holley red pump if it's needed.
I'm not giving up! I was so darn disapointed that night coming home from the track. But since I've come around. I replaced my alt with a 140amp power master unit. Because the volts were falling below 12v ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 800
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-11-2005 08:18 PM
Just a little side note about the alternator. I have never tried the power master unit you mention but until I went with the late model style I always had problems. They worked fine for awhile and then would die. They would last as long as the warranty though. Once I put in the 3G style, no more issues.------------------
1965 Mustang - 302,5spd
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 800
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-11-2005 08:23 PM
I just realized that the 3G I have is from Power Master. 
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-15-2005 02:59 PM
How about jetting up? any one think that would be worth a try? If so should I do both fronts and rear or just rear jets?
Stock jets are 69 front and 78 rear, 6.5pv and 31-31 nozzles.
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 08-15-2005).]
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Stang72
Gearhead Posts: 280
From: Arkel,Zuid-Holland,Holland
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 08-15-2005 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
How about jetting up? any one think that would be worth a try? If so should I do both fronts and rear or just rear jets?
Stock jets are 69 front and 78 rear, 6.5pv and 31-31 nozzles.
is that a DP'r Ron???, my 306 uses front 70's already.. (rear is vacuum, it uses 134-39 plate) so going up could be the right way..
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20638
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 08-15-2005 03:48 PM
Yeah it's a 700DP.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 723
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 08-15-2005 09:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stang72:
is that a DP'r Ron???, my 306 uses front 70's already.. (rear is vacuum, it uses 134-39 plate) so going up could be the right way..
I would try jetting up also if fuel and timing check out. My carb was leaning out midrange with 68 front and 72 rear. it is now 71 front 70 rear picked up 10hp on dynoo and is much better air/fuel ratio than before I was up over 15.5 to one bumping up the squirters also help with an off the line low rpm stumble I now have 35 front rear. Good Luck bud!------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer Nitrous system, Dynomax ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 308 hp at the rear motor only 13.25 @103mph
92 VERT triple black 5 speed, 88 GT 5 spd 77k original miles Red and Silver
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