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Author
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Topic: Rollerized Front Spring Perch's
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-11-2005 03:10 PM
 
What are the benefits of these rollerized (bronze bushed) spring perch's over new stock style one's.How much do they cost?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-11-2005 06:14 PM
Friction.
Once you have one in your hands and compare it to stock units you will see that they are worth their weight in gold.
$250 a pair from me.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1421
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-11-2005 07:46 PM
I have heard some autocross guys sing the praises of the roller spring perch.
How exactly is it that much better as far as driving behavior?
Faster suspension response?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-11-2005 08:08 PM
You can't twist a stock perch with a pair of pliers.
You can spin ours with your fingers.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-11-2005 08:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Friction.
Once you have one in your hands and compare it to stock units you will see that they are worth their weight in gold.
$250 a pair from me.
The units that Alex makes are first class. Amazing how easy they spin.
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 04-11-2005 08:47 PM
not to sound bitter but its the first ive heard of it. sometimes cant tell the difference between a true racers "secret" and what's for sale. where are items like this advertised?------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 856
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 04-12-2005 12:34 AM
Well, I actually built a set of these in school for a project using ball bearings. My design is completely rebuildable and the bearings cost me $20 and I used my old wore out set of perches. I should be getting them on soon and will let you know how they work. I'm guessing they'll really free up the front end. I don't know how they will act on the street, but I'm guessing the suspension will be much more responsive, and hopefully it'll handle better.Buy the way alex, do yours use ball bearings or bronze bushings? ------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=7794
[This message has been edited by BLstangin (edited 04-12-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-12-2005 12:52 AM
Greasable bronze bushings.
Full length of the perch.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-12-2005 10:36 AM
How important are they?
How much flex is present at that area?Are you saying as the suspension moves up and down, a perch that has rotation would keep the coil spring in true vertical? I can see the importance on a drag car during launch when the front end comes way up or even off the ground, but how about your weekend cruiser or canyon carver. I dont plan on getting any air or going off road.
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427Fastback
Gearhead Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-12-2005 01:10 PM
As the upper control arm sweeps thru its arc the spring perch has to try and rotate to follow it.The perch it self wont move much but the pin is constantly moving with the a-arm.No friction on the pin means a faster reaction time on your suspension and a more fluid feel.This applies to most of the bushings in the front of our cars.------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 04-12-2005 08:54 PM
i have to admit, it sounds cool. wonder how much more daylight it would put under my tires. cant believe i didnt already think of it.------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-12-2005 10:51 PM
I have a pair of Alex's perches thanks to Ron (scoop). Just have to get around to installing them on Melissa's '66. What's involved in the install? Do I need a spring compressor and do I have to align it when I'm done?SteveW
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-12-2005 11:05 PM
I think I smell a rat...
Someone with over 8,000 posts and what appears to be an impressive knowledge of drag racing asking about a spring compressor? Hmmmmmm....
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ntman
Gearhead Posts: 105
From: Mulkeytown, IL
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 04-12-2005 11:32 PM
Scott,I am assuming that was meant as a joke? 
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-13-2005 12:05 AM
OK,I confess! I have never removed the springs from Melissa's '66. It's still original.... Sorry to let you guys down, SteveW
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XR7
Gearhead Posts: 191
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-13-2005 01:53 AM
I have had my springs in and out three times on my Cougar. I used three diff. spring compressors and only one worked worth a crap. If you have the right tool it makes all the difference. I also converted my own spring perched to greasable oil impregnated bronze bushings. It takes a large portion of the bind out of the front suspension. My next project is the strut rods.------------------
68 Cougar XR7, 428 4-speed, Best ET 6.82 @ 101 1/8, 10.69@ 127.44 with 1.51 60 ft. Street legal all steel car w/ full interior.
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-13-2005 07:52 AM
Yeah, I thought steve'66 was pulling our leg! My mistake.  Steve, yes you will need a coil spring compressor to replace the perch, sometimes also known as the saddle. It is the bottom mount for the spring and there is no way to remove it without compressing the spring. If you are not changing the spring then you won't have to remove it....you can use the type of compressor that pulls the spring up into the shock tower. However, if you are going to the bother to work on the perch you might want to free-up the upper control arm shafts and/or replace the springs, in which either case the spring needs to come out.
The perch itself won't change the alignment, but if you are trying to set up the front end for launches and straightaways you may want to reset the specs anyway. I've got zero time on the strip so you would want to consult the other guys here for specs on what you're trying to do.
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-13-2005 10:54 AM
It sounds like these things are a real benefit for any application.
How do these compare to the ones that have the sealed roller bearings, as far a strength , durability,longevity.
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CometGT1974
Gearhead Posts: 479
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 04-13-2005 02:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BLstangin:
Well, I actually built a set of these in school for a project using ball bearings. My design is completely rebuildable and the bearings cost me $20 and I used my old wore out set of perches. I should be getting them on soon and will let you know how they work. I'm guessing they'll really free up the front end. I don't know how they will act on the street, but I'm guessing the suspension will be much more responsive, and hopefully it'll handle better.Buy the way alex, do yours use ball bearings or bronze bushings?
Any way I could get the part # on those bearings? I used aluminum when I made my greaseable bushings and would like to do a bearing setup.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-14-2005 09:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Scott H:
I think I smell a rat...
Someone with over 8,000 posts and what appears to be an impressive knowledge of drag racing asking about a spring compressor? Hmmmmmm....
I have over 18,000 posts and still have lots to learn.  Steve, really does know a lot, I'd say he's even a know it all. 
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-14-2005 09:34 PM
I know enough to ask my freinds at M&M. And to help them out when I have the answer for them too. My other car has Torsion Bars, and they are far easier to work with than coils. My Jeep and Trucks have leaf springs. Soooo, I am Coil illiterate. LOL SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-14-2005 09:38 PM
So,What is a good spring compressor? One that won't take your (or my) fingers off? And Alex,
When do we get the front end alignment secrets? I've been procrastinating hoping to go through it the right way, the first time. SteveW
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-15-2005 12:07 AM
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014749.html
Scroll down about 1/2 to 3/4 and you'll see a few different ideas
[This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 04-15-2005).]
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 856
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 04-15-2005 10:04 AM
Yes, I can get you a part number possibly tonight. They are 1 7/8 o.d. and 7/8 i.d. and are .500 wide. I made a housing for them, that's concentric from one end to the other within .0005, and round within the same. I then bored my old perches for a 2" o.d. tube, which is 2" o.d and like 1.500 or 1.6" i.d. can't remember exact i.d. then I bored the ends out to 1.874 on both ends to .500 deep, so that the bearings have about .001 press fit and the bearings can't go in the housing anymore because of the counter bore. I then polished the old inner shaft and put a snap ring groove on each end so that once the shaft is through the bearings and the snap rings on they can't come out of the housing, there for it can't come apart and I can replace the bearings by taking off one snap ring. Making it completely rebuildable. May be able to get a couple of pics if you guys are interested? ------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=7794
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 856
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 04-15-2005 10:06 AM
These are the bearings I used. Part number r14-2rs. Deep groove sealed bearings.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31485&item=3874683442&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V ------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=7794
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-18-2005 10:22 AM
Just installed a set of the bronze bushed rollerized spring perchs.WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! You can tell somethings different as soon as you leave your driveway. Highly reccomended.
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1421
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-18-2005 07:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by grego37:
Just installed a set of the bronze bushed rollerized spring perchs.WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! You can tell somethings different as soon as you leave your driveway. Highly reccomended.
Could you describe the difference that you feel while driving?
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 04-19-2005 10:30 AM
I'd think that the bronze bushing method serve a fella better than a roller bearing would - because it has WAY more surface area to distribute the load. Does that make sense to anyone else? Ryan
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Richard Swart
Gearhead Posts: 154
From: Graham, Wa.
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 04-21-2005 06:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
So,What is a good spring compressor? One that won't take your (or my) fingers off? And Alex,
When do we get the front end alignment secrets? I've been procrastinating hoping to go through it the right way, the first time. SteveW
please & thank you
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-21-2005 10:44 AM
Its more of what you dont feel. Normally with stock style perchs, even if they're new, when ever the upper arm moves the perch moves and if it doesnt pivot (which they dont) they slam back into the bottom coil of the coil spring.
I was skeptical too. But I knew as soon as I held each in my hand and compared them , there was no comparison.
And when I test drove it , I could feel it working, hard to explain, but everything felt much smoother, bumps, turns etc...Well worth the investment in my book.
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 04-21-2005 12:25 PM
Ryan I was thinking the same thing about ball bearings Vs bushings but I didnt want to poo poo the bearing idea. I would be real careful to check the load ratings of those bearings when you make one yourself. A good deal of the cars weight depends on it, and when you go over bumps, its shock loads could be tremendous. Big bronze bushings sound like a safer bet.------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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grego37
Gearhead Posts: 411
From: los angeles,CA,USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-21-2005 06:01 PM
I think the bronze bushing runs the entire length, if you go to a sealed bearing it's just going to support the ends. I think the bronze bushing seems like a stronger set up.besides how much travel are we talking about here? a few inches? it's more of a rocking back and forth, its not spinning like your axle bearings.
If you held a bronze bushing style in your hand and rocked it back and forth, and did the same with a bearing type I dont think you could feel a difference. I see no benefit of going to a sealed bearing type. I feel I have a stronger and safer piece with the greasable bronze bushing.
Very solid, free moving product!
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32valveGT350
Gearhead Posts: 143
From: Briz Vegas, QLD, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 04-23-2005 08:27 AM
Seeings I'm all the way down under, and have a brand new set of perches sitting here, I deceided to look at making a set of bronze bushed perches myself... having trouble justifieing the $350+ AUD it would wind up by the time they got down here...Didn't want to burn the rubber out with a torch, so I cranked my Oven up to 250degrees centigrade (480 farenheit) and left the perches in there for 1/2 hour... (Whole house now smells like I did a burnout inside!) took them out and propped the perch up on wooden blocks and gently tapped the spindles out. The rubber came with the spindle... then I ran a knife down each side of the rubber and peeled it off with pliers... too easy!
Now to sort the bronze sleeves/polish and circlip groove the spindles etc....
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