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Author
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Topic: Carb update still need advice
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 04:28 PM
   
This is the last thing I did since the last time."I took the carb apart tonight. It looked real clean, I blew everything out again. I changed the 6.5pv to a 3.5 pv and the rear jets from 76 to 71. Now it's jetted 66 front and 71 rear, with two 35 squiters." Drove the car to work today. It started good and ran fine cold. Until it warmed it and then it loaded up again. 
It runs great at cruise speeds, and on the freeway. But as soon as I come to stop it starts to load up. I tried chaning the idle speed it didn't help.
I do think the new lower rear jets made the car run more strong at WOT.
Besides the loading up it runs better then ever. I do have a dumb question, why does the motor DIE right away if I cover either of the vent tubes, should that happen? I also tried cupped my hands over carb. The car just dies right away. Sorry to go on and on about this.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-06-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 04:29 PM
Alex, side note I'm now getting two tire marks again. Not 100% even but close all but one time both tires leave a nice mark.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-06-2005 04:55 PM
I do have a dumb question, why does the motor if I cover either of the vent tubes, should that happenShould what happen?  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 04:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I do have a dumb question, why does the motor if I cover either of the vent tubes, should that happenShould what happen?
It makes the motor DIE.Sorry Alex, one of those day, work and the car. Are both driving me crazy.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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bob6364
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: griswold,ct usa
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 05:20 PM
I just can't believe you don't have an intake/vac leak somewhere....
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-06-2005 05:42 PM
Plugging the vent tube stops atmospheric pressure/air from the bowl area of carb, sorta like sticking a finger in your windpipe. Check vacuum leak by spraying starting fluid at base of carb.,intake to head gaskets, vacuum line connections, any place there is vacuum while car is idling. If it picks up idle vaery slightly it is a small leak if it stalls engine it is a large leak. Have a fire ext. handy & do it outside tho. Where are your idle mixture screws set, one turn out from stop, two, where? Are there two screws or four? Where is the float level set at? You say it loads up at idle, do you mean it floods? Is there fuel dribbling from booster nozzles (not squirters) at idle? Need symptoms.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6417
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-06-2005 05:45 PM
the vent tubes allow the air to escape as the fuel is being pumped into the bowl. if you close off the vent tube, the pressure buildup will force the fuel past the needle and seat and cause flooding. i had a dirtdobber build a nest in a vent tube once. ran great at wide open throttle but would not idle and would die on the starting line. drove several of us crazy till someone accidently found it!!!------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx
M&M member #839
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 05:54 PM
Scoop, I have a 750DP with less than 2K miles on it, that worked fine on my car.
I am three hours away from Reno, and I would be more than happy to meet you halfway (Blue Canyon maybe?), and let you try my carb. Maybe we can eliminate the carb as the problem.
My offer still stands. Just let me know. As you well know the weather out here on the west coast is beautiful for at least the next 10 days.... Great for a drive. 
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:02 PM
Mach won, thanks again for the offer. I'll wait on it for now. Thats such a nice offer let me know if you ever need help.
Also when you come up for H.A.N. lets get together."Where are your idle mixture screws set, one turn out from stop, two, where? Are there two screws or four? Where is the float level set at? You say it loads up at idle, do you mean it floods? Is there fuel dribbling from booster nozzles (not squirters) at idle? Need symptoms." Nothing out of the boosters, but the plates do look wet some times. It's a two screw system they are set at 2 turns out each.
Loading up like it's getting to much gas until you floor it, or rev it hard.
I have not had it die yet. But sometimes it comes close it will idle real rough,and idles down about 100-300 rpms. On tuesday when I'm off I'll check again for a vacuum leak. I'm no expert at this stuff. So I don't mind rechecking my work.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-06-2005).]
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rustang@home
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Clarion, PA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 06:09 PM
If you had a vacuum leak I think it would be surging when you're cruising.My money's still on vapor-lock Enough pressure can build up in the fuel line and push the needle off the seat and flood that motor. Does your fuel line go past anything hot?
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:12 PM
I've really taken the time to make sure the lines are as far from a heat source as I could.
The gas cap is a new stock model which I installed after the problem started. I think the pony caps are vented ?Why the vapor lock shows up after the new motor and carb were installed ?
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-06-2005 06:16 PM
Do you have another coil laying around?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Do you have another coil laying around?
I'm sure I do, will any work with my Duraspark and a full 12 volts. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 06:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Mach won, thanks again for the offer. I'll wait on it for now. Thats such a nice offer let me know if you ever need help.
Also when you come up for H.A.N. lets get together."
I wish I could, but I'm a farmer and August is a very busy time for me.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mach won:
I wish I could, but I'm a farmer and August is a very busy time for me.
It's a week long 
How about the all Ford race at Sac raceway.
"MAY 2005
1....Sun...West Coast Ford Car Show and Drags-open 9am"
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-06-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-06-2005 06:42 PM
Yes, any 12v coil will work.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Yes, any 12v coil will work.
Ok I'll change it and let you know. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Wayne Brooks
Gearhead Posts: 140
From: Winfield, Ks. 67156
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-06-2005 07:01 PM
So..what does it mean if you have fuel dribbling out of the boosters at idle? My dual 600 edelbrocks do this. Please, let me know so that I can rectify this. Mine was running rich, jetted it down and reset the floats, seemed to really help. But, still have the dribbles and fast idle. Anything less than 1100 rpm and it wants to die.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-06-2005 07:04 PM
Floats are still too high.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Hemikiller
Gearhead Posts: 606
From: Killingworth, CT
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-06-2005 08:28 PM
Scoop, I don't know if you've tried this yet, but how about a phenolic spacer under the carb?I had problems on-off with heat soak on my XR7. It only showed up on the hotter days here in CT. Since you're in AZ, I assume it's pretty warm. The heat soak was as you describe it. Car runs great cold, put a few miles on it and it'll load up. If you have the air cleaner off, you can see the fuel dribbling out of the boosters. I put in a 1/2" phenolic spacer from Canton and the problem went away. Also, I don't know what formulation of fuel you get out there, but if I drive anything with a Holley on a nice warm day in the winter, the fuel boils in the carb. The "winter mix" has a lower boiling point (or whatever the tech term is) for improved cold temperature comustion and reduced emissions.
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rustang@home
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Clarion, PA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 09:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Why the vapor lock shows up after the new motor and carb were installed ?
Scoop,
It's like I said in that first post. You replaced an old tired motor with one with higher compression, more power, etc. It's making a ton more heat under that hood. If I remember right you're also running aluminum heads? Those probably radiate more heat too. Oh yeah, one other thing I did for the street was run a smaller water pump pulley to flow more water at cruising rpm. That in addition to the return fuel line helped my vapor lock problem too.
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 10:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
It's a week long
How about the all Ford race at Sac raceway.
"MAY 2005
1....Sun...West Coast Ford Car Show and Drags-open 9am"
Sounds like that's a real possibility. Haven't been to Sac raceway since High School (1974). I'm looking forward to it.
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 10:37 PM
I really think your problem is in the idle circuit of your carb. Maybe screw in the mixture screws 1/2 turn? It just seems that when the engine is cold it wants more fuel, and when it warms up it needs less. I can remember in the 60's and 70's we had three Ford F-600's (56 models). My dad wanted MORE POWER, so out with the 292 Y blocks and in with 390's and holley 4bbl's. We kept the old radiators, which were too small for all the new power, and worked the piss out of them! 220* temps and higher always, but the trucks could now go 65mph loaded instead of 45mph. My point is these motors generated ALOT of heat, but we never experienced the kind of trouble your having. Even in 100* weather.
They all had mechanical chokes, and even then they were a bear to keep running when they were first started in the morning. (cold engine, lean condition) Hope this helps.
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-06-2005 11:23 PM
Since by your description engine SEEMS to be running too rich, screw idle mixture screws in to stop, (not hard, just till they stop) back each out 1/2 turn, start engine,adjust outward 1/8 turn on one then the other, having each the same ammount of turns, untill the best idle is obtained. If you have a vacuum guage adjust in this manner to obtain highest vacuum reading. Then see what happens. Before you do this take a pin like a small saftey pin or straight pin & punch through the idle air bleeds located in the air horn near the slope down into venturi. They are brass looking thingys with a very small hole in them, two are idle, two are high speed, clean all of them, if you have compressed air blow them out, do not look straight down into carb. as you do this as gas will spray upward.Take your idle mixture screws out, (being careful to not damadge the "o" rings of rubber or cork) blow through the screw hole & you should feel air coming out the idle air bleed restricter, (thos brass thingys) this indicates they are clean. Put your screws back in and adjust as above. I have seen air bleeds do this and also metering blocks that were porus leaking fuel into idle circuit. If idle circuit is too rich the fuel will be underneath the throttle plates, unless its extremly rich then you might see some at the transfer slots.
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-06-2005 11:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Floats are still too high.
As Alex said and too much fuel pressure or something holding needle off seat. As Alex calls them on a Jimmy Carter,you may not have enough vacuum to hold the metering rods into the jets.
[This message has been edited by cracing (edited 03-06-2005).]
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Wayne Brooks
Gearhead Posts: 140
From: Winfield, Ks. 67156
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-06-2005 11:47 PM
Should I change to lighter springs on the metering rods that are supplied in the jet and metering rod kits first? Then if that doesn't help lower the float levels again? Thanks for the replies.
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Wayne Brooks
Gearhead Posts: 140
From: Winfield, Ks. 67156
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-06-2005 11:51 PM
Might add, I have 4.5 lbs of fuel pressure at idle. Have the regulator and in line pressure gauge.
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-07-2005 12:11 AM
Floats first,If they are still above what the base setting is and you are sure the needles & seats are clean. If floats get too low, its gonna lay down in a pull or higher rpms. How many in. vacuum does it have? Alex might know the level at which you go to lighter springs & possibly have a strip kit for them. I would guess that if they are stock, they would be for 14-19 in. vacuum. a "cammed" engine wont have anything close to that. But you said you already have lighter springs them? On a Carter its a trial & error deal, mostly error.[This message has been edited by cracing (edited 03-07-2005).]
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 340
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-07-2005 12:30 AM
And I'm not trying to hijack this thread, just offering my extremly limited knowledge on this subject. I've been wrong many, many times & will be many more if I'm still alive.Looking back tho, being a smartazz is the only thing I've ever mastered.
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Wayne Brooks
Gearhead Posts: 140
From: Winfield, Ks. 67156
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-07-2005 12:46 AM
I have the lighter springs in the kit. Haven't put them in yet. Still have the standard orange colored springs in the carbs now. Don't know the exact numbers on the cam. It is in the 300 duration range and 600 lift area, is a split lift and duration comp cam that the previous owner put in it. Will get the vacuum numbers later. P.S. I appreciate the hijacking of the thread, I think everybody else is asleep.
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-07-2005 07:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mach won:
My point is these motors generated ALOT of heat, but we never experienced the kind of trouble your having. Even in 100* weather.
They all had mechanical chokes, and even then they were a bear to keep running when they were first started in the morning. (cold engine, lean condition) Hope this helps.
Dude, I've had cars and trucks with no problems too.... The fact remains I put a different motor in my car, and I've had the problems I've described...and the solutions I've found is as I've described. And it didn't take 100 degree heat to act up.
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-07-2005 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rustang:
Dude, I've had cars and trucks with no problems too.... The fact remains I put a different motor in my car, and I've had the problems I've described...and the solutions I've found is as I've described. And it didn't take 100 degree heat to act up.
DUDE........Just trying to help by recalling some of my experiences. It could be something else. I didn't say it couldn't be vapor lock. Did I? [This message has been edited by Mach won (edited 03-07-2005).]
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