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Author
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Topic: Motor still loading up HELP!
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 06:02 PM
   
I put in a fuel regulator hoping that would solve the problem. But after driving the car for about 5 min's today. It started up again, acts just like it's loading up. Idle dips and motor runs rough, real rough once you get going again, until you floor it or get up to cruising speeds. Alittle surge only once at cruising speeds today. So far this was happing with two different carbs, replaced my fuel filter, spark plugs which were way to rich, changed my carb to intake gasket,have the regualtor at 5psi. I'm lost now, I can't drive it this way and can't afford the $150 the local hotrod carb guy wants to go over the carb.
Could it be the ignition ? valves etc ?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-01-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-01-2005 07:35 PM
DO you have a fuel pressure gauge on the car that you can read while driving?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 07:48 PM
No I don't have and pressure gauge at all.
Please don't take this the worng way, but could it be something else besides fuel pressure. I don't understand why this only started after the motor rebuild, and I reused the same fuel pump. I never had this problem before I rebuilt the motor. I changed to a different carb holley 600vs to a 700dp both do the same thing. Which tells me it has to in the motor, intake gasket, ignition or fuel pump ?P.S. Sorry rant but this is driving F'ing crazy.  I just don't understand it. I almost took the carb off and sent it flying.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-01-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-01-2005 07:52 PM
It's hard to diagnos without data Scoop.
"Loading up" is kinda generic and lends us to lean towards a carb or fuel issue.
Have you checked the simple stuff like timing and vacuum leaks?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-01-2005 07:55 PM
OK, here's a simple test you can do for me and all you need is a empty gallon jug and a watch with a second hand.
Dissconnect your fuel line from the regulator and stick it in the jug.
Have someone crank the motor over (run it on the fuel in the carb) and see how much fuel you can get in the jug in 15 seconds.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 07:55 PM
Alex, I've checked and repchecked for vacuum leaks. The timing is in the same place it's been since I installed the motor. 10 at idle and 32 total all in by 2500rpm. Vacuum advance plugged, if there is any more data I can give you please let me know.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-01-2005 07:56 PM
OK, here's a simple test you can do for me and all you need is a empty gallon jug and a watch with a second hand.
Dissconnect your fuel line from the regulator and stick it in the jug.
Have someone crank the motor over (run it on the fuel in the carb) and see how much fuel you can get in the jug in 15 seconds.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 07:57 PM
Ok I do have a tester pressure gauage. I can go see if I can hook that up too.
I'll also do your test and let you know.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead Posts: 168
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-01-2005 08:08 PM
As Alex stated, it's impossible to give meaningful advice without sufficient data. However, let me throw a couple things at you and lets see where they splatter.I gather the problem manifests itself AFTER the engine heats up? This suggests possible heat soak and percolating of fuel in the float bowls which pushes fuel through the carb. Another symptom of this would be hard starting due to flooding when attempting to restart warm engine. A heat isolator gasket under the carb would be in order. An air cleaner top too close to the carb top could cause a rich condition. Also, most carbs are calibrated for a constant air leak from the PCV valve. If you have no PCV it will be too rich. All this assumes you aren't "tuning" on the carbs and changing factory settings and,of course, they are new and/or in perfect working order. Hope this helps. Get more data and we'll be able to get more specific. Good luck!
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 08:17 PM
Ok I got hair over 6psi at idle and when I rev'd the motor, or held it at a higher RPM nothing changed still at 6psi.Dusty, thanks for tips, run a 1" wood spacer now and a 4" tall air filter with a domed air cleaner lid.
Fuel lines are ran away from any heat sorce the best I could that is.
I do run a PCV unit.
But you hit it on the nose, starts once car beings to warm up. The car starts right up almost all the time. In morning if it's cold it runs rough, but I don't have a choke. And once in while when hot it's alittle hard to start.
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-01-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-01-2005 08:18 PM
Alex do I still need to do the bucket test too ?
I also rechecked the timing, it was right on the money.
Maybe I should just park the car until I can afford to the carb redone by the carb guy.
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-01-2005).]
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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead Posts: 168
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-01-2005 08:40 PM
Assuming you've adjusted your idle mixture to achieve the highest vacuum at the highest rpm, how many turns off the seat are the screws? Also, when rebuilding engine , was the block decked, heads milled etc?
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rustang@home
Journeyman Posts: 94
From: Clarion, PA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-01-2005 08:43 PM
When I built my first hi compression performance street motor for my stang, I went thru a learning curve with vapor lock. The old motor never gave me any problems at all, but the new motor...once I got to putzin' around town, would load up and die unless I got out on the open road for awhile. The vapor lock would push the needle right off the seat and flood the motor. The solution I came up with was I fabricated from 1/4" copper line a return as close to the carb as possible back to the tank. I drilled a hole in the fill neck and epoxied the line into it. Up at the carb, where I tee'd the 1/4" return line, I put a Holley jet inside of the tee to regulate the fuel return. I never had vapor lock again!  Keeping the fuel circulating kept it from boiling. Hope this helps..
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 01:29 AM
The idle screws are 2 turns out each. Heads are new RPM's and neither where decked or milled.Alex, do you think the filling the bucket test is still needed ???? ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-02-2005).]
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-02-2005 01:59 AM
just a thought, your plugs are the right heat range?Roger
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 03:40 AM
Roger, I went the plugs that the engine builder and Edelbrock and some of the guys on here recomended.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 03:43 AM
I took the carb apart tonight. It looked real clean, I blew everything out again. I change the 6.5pv to a 3.5 pv and the rear jets from 76 to 71. Now it's jetted 66 front and 71 rear, with two 35 squiters.
Both pumps are adjusted and work good. The plugs looked over rich again when I checked them tonight. Should I go lower then 66 front jets ?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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bob6364
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: griswold,ct usa
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 03-02-2005 07:10 AM
I agree with on of the other guys sounds like vapor lock ...I did have a car act just like yours and it had a bad coil,it wouldn't act up until it was hot,one day it died completly and that was the way I found out...just a thought.
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-02-2005 10:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
The idle screws are 2 turns out each.
When I had my Holley 750DP the first time I started the car I had the four idle screws adjusted two turns out. A good starting point. It started and ran fine because the motor was cold, resulting in a lean condition. Once the motor warmed up it wouldn't idle worth a crap, (rich) but it would run at cruising speeds just fine as it was off the idle circuit. After using a vacuum gauge to adjust the idle screws (the motor must be at operating temp), I ended up with the screw positions all over the board. Some were as little as 1/2 turn, while others were 2 turns. I know on my Holley a 1/2 turn the wrong direction on the idle screws makes the difference on weather the car will idle or not.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 12:45 PM
Any way ot could be the Duraspark electronic control module ?I'm reaching here, don't give up on me now. I've been fighting this problem since last spring.
Thanks for all the help. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-02-2005 12:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Any way ot could be the Duraspark electronic control module ?
Modules either usually work or don't, they rarely cause problems like this. But what about your coil and spark plug wires? You're using the electronic ignition coil, right? It is getting a full 12 volts, right? You're using the AR plugs right? Maybe they aren't happy on the street. Do you have regular Autolites you can pop in and try? Are the plugs wet and sooty or dry and sooty? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 01:00 PM
Wet and sooty, and I don't use the AR plugs. I use the regular ones. I have FOrd racing wires, and a MSD blaster coil with a full 12 volts to it. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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rockafellz
Gearhead Posts: 1426
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 01:36 PM
Hey Ron,Could be something overlooked. You sure every vacuum port that needs to be plugged is plugged? Rear port of the intake manifold? Rear port of the carb spacer? Front port of the carb? How about that vacuum diaphram on the carb? Or maybe some hoses got kinked and have a hole in it. How about your transmission vacuum line running from the tranny to the rear intake port? It really doesn't sound like it could be your carb. It sounds like it could be more of an air problem. There were a couple of times that I was starting the car and it backfired and blew the caps that were plugging some of my vacuum ports. The idle was real screwy until I found the cap laying on the garage floor. Erik ------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Father & Son built w/M&M Help :cool:
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-02-2005 01:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
run a 1" wood spacer now and a 4" tall air filter with a domed air cleaner lid.
Wood? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 02:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Wood?
Sorry it's a fiber phenolic spacer, looks like wood to me, and wood is easier to spell.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 02:05 PM
Ok, took the carb apart again. I checked all the vacuum plugs both of them. I replaced them both just in case. I'll go and buy some new meter plate gasktes just in case. I cleaned all the air bleeds again. I check the PCV and trans lines both look good.
I'll get the new gaskets and run it again later today if I have time.
Steve, the wet plugs tell me to much gas right ?
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-02-2005 02:15 PM
Yes, or not enough ignition.  Are they all looking the same? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 02:19 PM
Steve, when I changed them they all looked kinda wet and black sooty. This time I only pulled 1 and 8 they are the most easy to get to.Hotter plug ?
Bad coil ?
Ok I know it could be anything.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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johnmustang
Gearhead Posts: 5855
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 02:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Yes, or not enough ignition. Are they all looking the same?
What about running a hotter plug and a new coil? check your spacer for a crack or warp, as well as your intake. Have you tried the propane test for a vacuum leak? Also try running it without your air cleaner and see if it could be that causing a reverse air steam to your carb, do you have the air cleaner cranked down very hard? Just some thought flying around my empty head ------------------
JOHN
65 FASTBACK 2+2.....14.44 @ 107mph 1/4
87 TAURUS WAGON
03 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4 SHORT BOX
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
65 FASTBACK
2003 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-02-2005 02:27 PM
6 psi is good...All wet plugs points to the carb, a bad wire or two would just be one or two wet plugs... I assume your floats aren't too high... You shouldn't have problems with a 3.5 power valve dribbling unless it's bad, but you said it did the same with a 6.5... What rpm does it idle at? I'm wondering if you are uncovering your idle transfer slot at idle? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-02-2005 02:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by johnmustang:
do you have the air cleaner cranked down very hard?
Good point! Do you have at least 1/4" between your bowl vent tube and the bottom of the top of your air cleaner? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Bob Hopkins
Gearhead Posts: 362
From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 04:53 PM
?????????????
1 and 8 are the easiest to git too??
what ford are you workin on? 5 - 1
6 - 2
7 - 3
8 - 4
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Bob Hopkins
Gearhead Posts: 362
From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 05:03 PM
if you got it runnin at idle air cleaner off look down the venturi's and tell us weither you see gas dribblin out the boosters???
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-02-2005 05:52 PM
Good ground straps on the block and at least one head?
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Mach won
Journeyman Posts: 54
From: Walnut Grove, Ca. USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-02-2005 07:05 PM
Scoop, I have a 750DP with less than 2K miles on it, that worked fine on my car.I am three hours away from Reno, and I would be more than happy to meet you halfway (Blue Canyon maybe?), and let you try my carb. Maybe we can eliminate the carb as the problem.
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johnmustang
Gearhead Posts: 5855
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 03-02-2005 07:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mach won:
Scoop, I have a 750DP with less than 2K miles on it, that worked fine on my car.I am three hours away from Reno, and I would be more than happy to meet you halfway (Blue Canyon maybe?), and let you try my carb. Maybe we can eliminate the carb as the problem.
Now that is one hell of an offer, the people here on M&M never cease to amaze me with their generosity and caring. These truly are a great bunch of people. Steve you must be very proud of the type of person your website attracts. ------------------
JOHN
65 FASTBACK 2+2.....14.44 @ 107mph 1/4
87 TAURUS WAGON
03 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4 SHORT BOX
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
65 FASTBACK
2003 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6417
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-02-2005 07:34 PM
i think he said that he has had 2 different carbs on it. one would think that would rule out the carb but i guess both of them could have had a problem. really sounds like a carb problem to me. float to high, hole in float, leaky needle and seat, etc.------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx
M&M member #839
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 6417
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-02-2005 07:40 PM
ron, i just had a thought. make sure your gas cap is vented. if not, drill a small hole in it so the tank can vent. it could be building up pressure in the tank and forcing gas through the carb. grabbing for straws here!!------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx
M&M member #839
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John Holloway
Gearhead Posts: 848
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 03-02-2005 08:16 PM
Ron, Are you using the needle and seat from the rebuilding kit? I found that the needle and seats that come in the kits don't hold back the fuel when closed causing the engine to flood! I always buy different needle and seats, I will only use 110 needle and seats they are a higher quality needle and seat than what comes in with the kits.Another thing to try is take off the brain box for the DuraSpark and take it to a parts store and have them test it out, I bought a new one from carquest and it was bad, I chassed the same problem for 3mo's!just my 2cents...good luck.
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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead Posts: 168
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-02-2005 10:22 PM
Hi again. A lot of good advice hear, but I think much of it is off base. The reason I asked the questions I did is I've seen vacuum leaks do a lot of screwy stuff.
A case in point. I was at the street rod nats in Louisville a couple years ago. A fellow parked near us had a model A truck with a big block chev and 850dp running so rich it would make your eyes water. He messed with it for some time with no luck. Then he went to the Holley booth and got one of their reps to come out with his vacuum gauge and carb cleaner to diagnose it for him. The rep said he had a bad base gasket and sold him one for something like $13. No improvement! After the crowd cleared out and my curiosity (and boredom) got the best of me, I asked the fellow if he'd mind if I looked at it. He asked to see my hands! Somewhat confused I complied and he said I'd do. When I asked what that was about, he said he needed to know if I was a gearhead or a bull****ter. Anyway, I looked it over and like the rest found nothing, but was sure it was getting air somewhere. He got impatient and stomped off saying he was going to buy an Edelbrock carb and be done with it!I reviewed all the information I'd gathered and recalled his problems started when he put the new Air Gap intake on it. His buddy and "best darn Chevvy mechanic in Owensboro, Ky" had spent two weeks trying to get it sorted out , but had to keep it pig rich to keep it running at idle. The trip to Louisville had been quite a trial! I puuled the carb back off the intake and peered inside the plenum. I could see daylight in #7 intake runner!!! The new Edelbrock intake had a void in the bottom of thrunner about the width of your baby finger nail and about 3/4in long! The Edelbroch rep offered no help at all and told him to call Jegs where he'd bought it. We epoxied the hole, I reset the carb idle mixture and it ran like a watch. Never assume new parts rule out malfunctions!
Now, back to your situation. I think 2 turns is too much for a mild steet engine and may be masking a vacuum leak. While tolerable cold when the engine needs a rich mixture anyway, it is too much after heat builds and fuel is vaporizing and needs to be leaner. An old school way to track down a vacuum leak is to spray a flammable liquid, like wd40 or carb cleaner (as the Holley rep used) around the induction system and watch for an rpm change and change of exhaust note. If already pig rich, you may want to lean it down a bit so the enrichment of the alternate "fuel" makes a more noticable change in rpm and exhaust note. Before trying this, make sure you don't have any spark jumping around and that it isn't getting in the air filter. If this info doesn't yeild results, get a vacuum gauge, agood timing light, tach and spark tester. Give us your engine specs including cam, static compression, timing, vacuum at idle, idle rpm and vacuum response to rap on throttle ( when you goose the throttle the vacuum should drop instantly then jump higher than normal idle vacuum as engine decellerates). Post this info and Alex or I one will get back to you. Good luck.
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bob6364
Gearhead Posts: 120
From: griswold,ct usa
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted 03-02-2005 11:32 PM
I think his muffler bearings are shot!------------------
Bob
69 R Code Mach 1
70 Fastback 351C
71 coupe 302
99 F-250 Super Duty
2002 Exploder :)
http://community.webshots.com/album/214154666mXNhcr
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-03-2005 12:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bob6364:
I think his muffler bearings are shot!
That, or the kinunter valve is shot.  SteveW
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-03-2005 02:20 AM
Wow thanks for all the advice.
I'll check every item that was pointed out.Mach won, thats a very nice offer. I still have to other 600vs that I can put together and try. But thanks for the offer.  Today I took a break spent the day working with my dad on his T-bucket project. Now that was a blast. I'll try the new parts I put on the carb when I get more time off. Bob on my 65 with a 351w in it. The number 1 and 8 plugs have the most room to work around. Dusty, I've checked and rechecked for vacuum leaks. With carb cleaner but if the it acts up still. I'll check again and if that doesn't work. I'll post all the numbers you asked for. Thanks! ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 03-03-2005).]
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 03-03-2005 03:15 PM
sometimes the vacuum leaks are under the intake (drawing crankcase gasses from the lifter valley) and the spray test wont pick up any RPMs. Sounds like its running VERY rich.some folks like to buy an O2 gage and figure things out that way - its an alternative to paying someone to tune it for you... of course youd have to add a boss to the exhaust pipes and get an O2 sensor. Im tempted to do that on my car. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-03-2005 04:27 PM
I've found that when checking for vacuum leaks, an unlit propane torch is just as effective, more controlable, and causes less of a mess than carb cleaner or WD-40------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip [This message has been edited by SteveLaRiviere (edited 03-03-2005).]
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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead Posts: 168
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-04-2005 06:09 PM
Hi, are you making any progress with your diagnosis? Lots of good advice from some good techs! With the notable exceptions of Andy Law and Chuck Simon we don't have too many sharp Ford guys around here. That's one of the reasons this site is so much fun to read. Good luck.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-04-2005 06:32 PM
Dusty, I haven't had the time to get back to it yet. I'll let you guys know when I do. It might have to wait until my next days off which should Tuesday. Thanks again for all the help.
I can't stay away from this site. ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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