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Author
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Topic: theoretical six
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-19-2005 09:17 PM
   
ok, i know there aint many guys here racing a 200 straight six. i just bought a very base model 68 coupe, 200, auto, 3.50 gears. i think about how easily the 5.0 stangs went 14's right out of the box rated at 225 hp and weighing over 3200lbs. now a base 68 coupe has got to be less than 2800 lbs, maybe less than 2700. how much power would be necessary to get my wife's new (old) car in the 14's? the reason i say this is because no rice will ever pass any mustang we own, and i know a bone stock, beat up 5.0 with 200k plus miles is still plently to blow off %99 of anything with a wing or fart pipe. i want to make just enough power without affecting any driveability or killing mileage. just dont know how much i need.------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-19-2005 10:38 PM
chip the cheapest way to go 14s in that with a 200 is turbo.you can make a flange to bolt to the stock exhuast manifold and then to a turbo. use your H/W buy a nitrophil float for and boost reference the fuel pump. you can run like 8 psi without a innercooler. and your stock motor should and will be able to handle it unless it is really beat. first the turbo a t3 should be goodor a grand national turbo, or even a thunderbird turbo coupe turbo. mount it to the stock exhuast manifold. and put the air filter right where the battery is. i told you what the carb needs done do that and rig up a way to connect piping to the carb top. from there you need to run oil lines. T off your oil pressure sender hole to go into the trubo then return to the top of the valve cover or straight into the oil pan and epoxy a hole. then run a vacuum line from the carb bonnet to the inlet side of the fuel pump so that when you get more boost you get more fuel as to not starve the motor and burn a piston. this shoul get you started.------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-19-2005 11:32 PM
trash, man that idea scares me to death....almost. i love turbos, but have heard a lot of bad stuff about the blow through method with blowers and turbos. but i'm intrigued (if a hillbilly can be) by you saying its a cheap route. all the turbo stuff ive seen is priced for a richer man. how much would your idea run, ballpark? ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-19-2005 11:50 PM
turbo like 150 probably do it for like 300 the most. dont be scared turbos are easy. the H/W is a good carb for it to bc it is progressive. so it will run good------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-20-2005 10:16 PM
is that 300 as in $300.00???? (the decimal point is very important). if thats what you mean, i like it. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-20-2005 10:35 PM
yes $300.00 but it all depends on your fabrication skills. if you can find a good turbo with no or minimal play in the shaft and spins freely thats a start like it said 150 bucks from ebay. you already have the cabr and adapter ordered so thats out of the way. the float for the carb will probably run around 10 bucks. a piece of aluminum for a mounting bracket to the exhuast manifold like 30 -50 bucks if they drill the holes for ya. brake lines for oil to the turbo like 20 bucks a T for the oil sender branch off like 3 bucks. air filter cone type from 20 to 50 bucks. carb bonnet from 0 to 150. this depends on your fabrication skills bc the top of the carb isnt round it is oval i mean hell just run pvc 3 inch pipe painted black to it and find a ait cleaner thats low profile and use the base to build a carb bonnet to handle boost. and vacuum line for the fuel pump like 2 bucks and a connecter for the pump another two. so it all depends how fantsy you want to get and such. this is of couse without an innercooler that could cost another 150. plus plumbing.------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-20-2005 11:03 PM
If you pay close attention to details on that little six banger as you do your car, I don't see why you can't get it in the 14's normally aspirated. Better breathing, Better tires, better clutch, suspension and traction upgrades... It should be a piece of cake. Just think of it as a hotrod with 2 less cylinders and get to work!  ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-20-2005 11:36 PM
dude it is hard. www.fordsix.com these guys are experts.this is the cheapest. better tires are 400 for descent ones. i doubt a naturaly asped 200 can go 14s unless you do about 3000 dollars worth of work. im talking aussie head with a 4 barrel that ight there is 1000 maybe more. bottom end rebuild the head work is expensive. id slap on a t3 and run 12s but thats my 2 cents. besides there arnt to many turboed 65-68 inline stangs------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
IP: Logged |
Toronado3800
Gearhead Posts: 903
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-21-2005 12:18 AM
Chip, 200 HP out of a 200 Cube non-turbo motor doesn't sound impossible, just will have to run through the same steps as it would take to build a 350 HP 351. Think of it as a mild version of your 306. If you keep the compression low enough you can always buy a turbo later if the ricers are keeping up.
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ackjlo
Journeyman Posts: 41
From: fort myers, fl. usa
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 01-21-2005 11:42 AM
Put a 250 6cyl in it. Those ran pretty strong
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-21-2005 01:51 PM
or just put a 250 head on. or even a later model 200 head from the early 80s. some emission stuff but a turbo is still cheapest HP you will be able to get out of it------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
IP: Logged |
chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-21-2005 07:33 PM
i bet the log head/intake is the big plug. i guess if i was running n/a to get to the 200hp mark i shouldve started with a bigger carb. that is only if the head would flow the air from at least a 350-400cfm carb. i think it dont, but im not sure. you could crutch it some with cam but then say good bye to any mileage or manners, and it would move the powerband upstairs, not streetable with a stock trans. i bet you could get 200 n/a with a better head. the turbo idea really blows my mind. actually have a friend with a turbo out of a 4 cylinder 80's mustang. im sure he doesnt want it since he's putting a v-8 in. i will call him tommorow. if the blow through is practical, reliable, and streetable for as cheap as trash says, it seems like the way to go. i think i would be using the stock exaust manifold (right trash?) and the clifford headers aint cheap anyway. maybe the turbo lag and the fact its a stock automatic would keep the original drivetrain intact....not such a big hit when the loud pedal is mashed. my 67 was originally a 6 cyl. car that had a 302/3 speed put in place. the drive shaft was spliced together and still has the 6 rearend, and small u-joint out back. every time i dumped the clutch at anything more than about 2500rpms, the little u-joint would desintegrate. believe it or not i want to keep the little rear/4 lug setup on this car. ive got everything to switch the front end to a drum-brake 5 lug, but i dont have a rear end (gave my 8 inch away on the 67 when i went to a 9 inch). i guess im up agaisnt it on this. need to make power, its got to be thru stock trans/rear, and its got to be invisible from the standpoint of daily drivability. i could just put a mild cam, headers, run this h/w 5200 carb, have good machine work done, cold air induction, blah, blah blah.... you know, all the little tricks, electric fan..etc. but in the end, would it run 14's with the stock trans and 3.50 gears? so with all the same, minus the headers, plus a turbo.....? also what would be the boost limit with 87 octane cheap gas and the 8 or 9:1 compression? if this setup is going to eat my trans or rear, i dont even want to think about it.------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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Mustang Man
Gearhead Posts: 332
From: Howe Indiana USA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-21-2005 08:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by chip67:
i bet the log head/intake is the big plug. i guess if i was running n/a to get to the 200hp mark i shouldve started with a bigger carb. that is only if the head would flow the air from at least a 350-400cfm carb. i think it dont, but im not sure. you could crutch it some with cam but then say good bye to any mileage or manners, and it would move the powerband upstairs, not streetable with a stock trans. i bet you could get 200 n/a with a better head. the turbo idea really blows my mind. actually have a friend with a turbo out of a 4 cylinder 80's mustang. im sure he doesnt want it since he's putting a v-8 in. i will call him tommorow. if the blow through is practical, reliable, and streetable for as cheap as trash says, it seems like the way to go. i think i would be using the stock exaust manifold (right trash?) and the clifford headers aint cheap anyway. maybe the turbo lag and the fact its a stock automatic would keep the original drivetrain intact....not such a big hit when the loud pedal is mashed. my 67 was originally a 6 cyl. car that had a 302/3 speed put in place. the drive shaft was spliced together and still has the 6 rearend, and small u-joint out back. every time i dumped the clutch at anything more than about 2500rpms, the little u-joint would desintegrate. believe it or not i want to keep the little rear/4 lug setup on this car. ive got everything to switch the front end to a drum-brake 5 lug, but i dont have a rear end (gave my 8 inch away on the 67 when i went to a 9 inch). i guess im up agaisnt it on this. need to make power, its got to be thru stock trans/rear, and its got to be invisible from the standpoint of daily drivability. i could just put a mild cam, headers, run this h/w 5200 carb, have good machine work done, cold air induction, blah, blah blah.... you know, all the little tricks, electric fan..etc. but in the end, would it run 14's with the stock trans and 3.50 gears? so with all the same, minus the headers, plus a turbo.....? also what would be the boost limit with 87 octane cheap gas and the 8 or 9:1 compression? if this setup is going to eat my trans or rear, i dont even want to think about it.
One way to bypass the crappy intake/1 bbl carb setup is to get the late model head (78-83) that has the bigger valves & flat intake log & upgrade the valves to FSPP back cut 1.75" intakes and 1.5" exhaust valves, shave the intake flat and mount a 500 cfm Holley 2 Bbl on it.
Thers a lot of talk on how the cfm ratings are different for V8's and I6's but I tend to ignore all that and say that the bigger the carb is the better it is as long as its a Holley!  Rule of thumb is 350 cfm for a "street six" and a 500 cfm for a "hotsix"...  Stock cam is a turd and so is the stock POS exhaust system. Upgrade to at least a 264-270-272 duration cam and a dual out header and K-code dual exhaust with dynomax super turbos. I figure that mines making between 200-225 hp and its not that bad on the street.... Later, Doug
------------------
66 Mustang coupe
92 F-150
"Six Packer Performance Freak"!!!!
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trashline
Gearhead Posts: 1496
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-21-2005 08:23 PM
ive heard some talk about auto trans and turbos on imports. as long as you have a BOV (blow off valve) you should be ok. minimal boost with stock everything and now innercooler id say 8 -10 psi the most. with regular gas.you can tuse a header from fspp or clifford if yo setup a turbo you can either make your own turbo hesder or use the stock manifold. mustang man has some good points but they need to understand your own a budget. doing all this work is quite a bit of money. like he said switch to alater head to allow more air, but you got all that emission crap on there. as long as your trans and rear arnt crappy then they should hold up. but you need that BOV with an auto bc everytime it shifts you could risk the chance of blowing something. i am young with all this car stuff but i read alot on this stuff. that carb should be fine for any mods you plan todo with the car. aslong as you dont go buck wild.------------------
1966 coupe
200ci, 3.03 3 speed
holley weber two barrel, msd 6a, blaster 2 coil, Duraspark I, 2 inch exhaust to a super turbo, stock rear (3.20),ram air(homemade)
white w/ black interior, soon be painted (i hope) with the R model apron 1968 Ford Fairlane 289 auto rotting away 1979 f150 300 six with a three on the tree
IP: Logged |
bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-21-2005 10:27 PM
Back in the late '70s I had a '74 Mercury Capri with a solid cammed 2.8 ltr V6 and 4spd that would run 14's. It would do 140+ mph on the hwy without overdrive. It can be done. ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
IP: Logged |
chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-21-2005 11:20 PM
good stuff. still might go the n/a route, havent made up my mind and got plenty of time (when i say plenty of time it means im out of money). anyway, the turbo would look cool if that ended up the deal. the draw thru style looks easy on paper. i been trying to get on ebay to look at the early buick turbo cars that used the quadrabog. i kept getting booted, but i did see one. looks like the carb mount is permanently attached to the turbo inlet (fuzzy picture), that aint right is it? anyway, probably gonna build the motor n/a first and see what thats like. the cam and headers is a no-brainer. not swapping the head though. just those items along with the ignition and carb upgrade has got to be worth 50 ponies. i think zip ties would secure the motor better than the stock mounts, gonna put a turnbuckle on it. electric fan, cold air intake. the car thats being replaced with this 68 is a 93 taurus with a 3.0. im going to line them up when its done, the quicker car stays, the other gets sold. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 5822
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-22-2005 01:14 AM
Getting it into the 14's will not be easy.
I played around a bunch with a 65 Falcon convertible 200. I took the 351W 4 speed out and put the stock 200 in to sell it, when it didn't sell i decided to play. Stock it ran 20 flat, it was heavier than the Mustang being a convert, about 3100lbs. (a 3400lb tank with the 351) I put a very, very small nitrous system on it. Otherwise it was completely stock, ran 16.8, more than 3 seconds faster! After woofing the rings and breaking a few pistons, and driving it 150 miles home like that, LOL, i put a whole 1980 200 in it, with the huge ugly exhaust manifold that i had to grind to clear the shock tower and made up a 2 1/2" single exhaust. It ran almost a second faster than the 65 motor w/o N2O. I then bought a $25 used twin outlet header and adapted it to the single pipe.
I put an 8" Mustang II rear end with 3.55's (stock was 2.83) and the car ran low 17's but didn't have enough fuel pump to use the nitrous more than a couple hundred feet. To that point it's outrun a 14 second car.
I scared up an electric pump, used the 3/8"
fuel line i had on the 351 and was set to go 13's this tim, on the street it worked flawlessly, drive the 150 miles to the track and the tech guy says i have a fuel leak... it's the pump, sat for years and the seal allowed the motor to fill with gas. I disconnected it and ran 16.2 letting off the nitrous a couple hundred feet out. 
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