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Author
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Topic: M-6500-R302 oem roller lifters
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66-408-stang
Journeyman Posts: 60
From: lafayette, in usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-11-2005 11:34 AM
   
Anybody seeing any quality control problems with the current batches of these?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-11-2005 01:07 PM
No more than normal.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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66-408-stang
Journeyman Posts: 60
From: lafayette, in usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-11-2005 02:36 PM
Alex, would you expand on this?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-11-2005 03:30 PM
2 to 3 thousandths variance in roller play and oil bleed hole diameter.
Plunger depression is always inconsistant, but we change that anyway.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-11-2005 07:10 PM
So how much better are your custom lifters? How much do you get for a set of them?------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-11-2005 08:05 PM
you mean the ones i took out of the box and threw in my block aint good as they could be? i might have a 10 second car if i paid attention. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-11-2005 09:14 PM
The modified units are usually worth .010 to .020 depending on the rest of the deal.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-12-2005 01:53 AM
While we're on the subject...What's the absolute limit on spring pressures that can be safely ran with FMS hydro rollers and how much does oil pressure come into play?Thanks. ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-12-2005 02:23 AM
Right now I'm running about 160# on the seat and about 450# over the nose. I'm sure others run a lot more, but this is what I'm running. I dont know how much oil pressure matters, but I wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference. ------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-12-2005 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:
While we're on the subject...What's the absolute limit on spring pressures that can be safely ran with FMS hydro rollers and how much does oil pressure come into play?Thanks.
It depends on the cam profile and how you set the valves. Knowledgable NMRA style racers will tell you that you can defeat the plunger to negating any need for lifter oil pressure other than lubrication.
That being said, the limiting factor is what the bearing will withstand.
The top NMRA class racers replace lifters every event.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-12-2005 11:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
It depends on the cam profile and how you set the valves. Knowledgable NMRA style racers will tell you that you can defeat the plunger to negating any need for lifter oil pressure other than lubrication.
That being said, the limiting factor is what the bearing will withstand.
The top NMRA class racers replace lifters every event.
So you're saying if your "pushing the limits" you can get the same benefits of a solid roller and still stay within the class rules.  I talked with a CompCams rep a while back and he told me that I could run a hydro roller lifter on some of the less agressive solid roller grinds as long as springs pressures are matched to the profile. He didn't recommend it for obvious reasons but I guess anything is possible if your only goal is to win the next race. Thanks Alex and Dustin.
------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-12-2005 12:38 PM
With the correct push rods you can colapse the juice lifters and force them to act like a solid. That's how it's done.
I would never do or recomend it myself unless you have some serious financial resources and are trying to be competitive in a specific "stock" lifter class.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-12-2005 01:36 PM
So what would you say is a good spring that a std hyd roller lifter could tolerate and still function normally. 240 duration, .600 lift for example. Comp# 977 or Isky 8005-A sound about right? Would it shorten their life running under a 400# spring?  ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH [This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 01-12-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-12-2005 01:40 PM
I would never use a hyraulic roller with .600 lift, but if I did, I suppose that I would want to be at least 180 or better on the seat.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-12-2005 03:40 PM
I've ran my 242/[email protected] and 0.640" lift hyd roller on the street for over a year now and haven't had any troubles. Like I said earlier, I'm running about 160# on the seat and revs to 7,000 rpms with no problems. ------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck [This message has been edited by f100cleveland (edited 01-12-2005).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-12-2005 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by f100cleveland:
I've ran my 242/[email protected] and 0.640" lift hyd roller on the street for over a year now and haven't had any troubles. Like I said earlier, I'm running about 160# on the seat and revs to 7,000 rpms with no problems.
And how fast is your truck again? ? ?
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-12-2005 04:01 PM
Is that comment supposed to be bad??? I never said or implied that my truck was fast. I don't even know what it runs for a time or mph yet since I haven't gone to the track yet. I just said what I was running and it is working so far. I ran a [email protected] and 0.612" lift comp hyd roller and my spring pressure was only like 115-120# on the seat/a little over 300# open and it caused my lifters to "bounce" on the backside of the lobe and ended up wrecking my cam. I noticed it when I did a cam swap. I know that solid rollers are the way to go if going roller, but for a mainly street driven vehicle, I see the hyd roller as being more practical. Now if it was mainly race and a little street, then I'd go with a solid roller for sure. But, can't the solid rollers be used on a hyd roller cam? What do you lose? The lift will lose whatever your lash is, but do you lose any duration? Because I have been starting to think about switching to solid rollers for the performance end of it. ------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck [This message has been edited by f100cleveland (edited 01-12-2005).]
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-12-2005 06:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by f100cleveland:
But, can't the solid rollers be used on a hyd roller cam? What do you lose? The lift will lose whatever your lash is, but do you lose any duration? Because I have been starting to think about switching to solid rollers for the performance end of it.
I don't see why not. Most otc performance hyd roller cams are nothing more than a mild solid roller with a softer ramp and less lift over the nose to keep from collapsing and bouncing the heavy lifters. You should be able to use a tight lash around .012-.016" since it was designed for no lash. I haven't done it, but don't see why you couldn't.I'm sure some of these veteran racers have tried solid lifters on a hyd cam once or twice in their search for more HP!  ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-12-2005 06:54 PM
It was just a question?  You seem to be grossly over cammed. ET numbers would confirm that for certain. I doubt if you are actually seeing all of that lift anyway. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 01-12-2005 08:46 PM
Alex, I didn't pick the cam. Mark McKeown is the one who took all my specs and compiled them into that. Comp tech actually wanted to go bigger, and I talked to 4 different techs. Crane cams said to use the F246 or whatever it is. Mark also designed the cam with the 3.89 gears and a little bit less stall. I've since added the 4.86 gears and the 4000 stall. How much lift do you think I'm losing with the hyd roller lifters? Would you consider going with the solid rollers on the hydro cam? ------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's and a Funnelweb. Full Roller c-6 trans with Gear Vendors Overdrive and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-12-2005 11:44 PM
i run a hyd. roller 232/240, .576, 110 split on oem lifters. the recomended springs which i use are 200lbs on the seat and 400lbs on the nose. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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Damn Yankee
Journeyman Posts: 22
From:
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 01-13-2005 04:47 AM
I have a brand new set of Shubecks modified roller lifters gathering dust. I will list them in the classifieds forum
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