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Author
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Topic: Alex help - need good head gaskets
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-04-2004 02:14 PM
   
Alex - Monday morning I will be tearing apart the top end of my motor again. I still have coolant leaking out the passenger side of the head. I have tried everything. I have retorqued the head bolts to specs, Did a coolant presurre check a couple of days later and they still leak from the same side/area. Now I'm forced to remove the e-brock heads and do the job over again. The head gaskets that I have on there now were recommended from e-brock. They are the fel pro 1011-2. They are .39 compressed. Is there a better head gasket out there to use? Should I just buy the same ones that I'm taking off?What do you reccomend that I do? Should I take the e-brock heads to a local machine shop and have them pressure checked for cracks? Have them to double check that they are not warped? I have put approx 100 miles on these heads and I'm running out of money and patience with these heads. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks once again Alex.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9489
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-04-2004 03:38 PM
I'm not Alex, but I've been through this with him before. Use Victor-Reinz head gaskets. Alex can get them for you and they work great. Just use a steel straight edge to check the heads for flatness. Make sure all the head bolt holes are cleaned with a bottoming tap and don't have water or oil in them. Good luck,SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9489
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-04-2004 03:39 PM
Also,get a razor sharp gasket scraper and make sure the block's deck is perfectly clean.  SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-04-2004 03:53 PM
Sorry gang, but we are out of town for the weekend again so computer time is difficult at best. Be back at the ranch Sunday night.
Victor #3428SG.
No substitues.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-05-2004 02:11 AM
Alex - I know that you are ties up at the moment and not near a computer, But when you get a chance I would like to know how to get those victor reinz head gaskets. I have phoned around to the auto part stores and they have never heard of them. Are they not available in canada? Also how thick are those gaskets? Thanks once again.
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-05-2004 09:50 AM
Napa has them. I have them in my 306, it was the only thing that stoped the leak and I'm using iron heads, but they will work with either. About $50 a side. You'll probably have to order them.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans [This message has been edited by BLstangin (edited 12-05-2004).]
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mizry
Journeyman Posts: 67
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-05-2004 02:10 PM
1011-2 are reccoemnded fro aluminum heads because they do not damage the aluminum surface. 1011-1 will leave a groove in the heads. the old style graphite ford head gaskets work very good but ford has since changed to multi layered steel gasket to eliminate problems. I use cometics on aluminum heads, Just a sugestion when all else fails.
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-05-2004 02:31 PM
I am not to sure why the fel pro 1001-2 is recommended for aluminum heads because they didn't work for me or my friend who is also running aluminum heads with the 1001-2 gaskets. Can't find the victor reinz in canada at all, No one had heard of them. I would like to try these gaskets out. I don't really even care if they are a little on the pricy side, Because if it cures my leak problem then I would be happy. However it is strange that only one of me e-brock heads are leaking. The driver side one dosen't leak at all. That tells me that there is probably a problem with the head itself or the block deck is not flat on the passengers side. I will find out in the next couple of days when I tear apart the top half of motor again. Thanks once again.
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 363
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-05-2004 04:02 PM
I found the Victor gaskets by doing a quick search on Napa's website. You can get them online for 45.99 ea. Here is the link:
http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_results_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=15548664&prmenbr=5806------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's. Full Roller c-6 trans and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. 1982 F100 351c 4v 1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-05-2004 08:28 PM
I grew up on Fel-Pro products as their plant was only a few miles from my home.
I have used every head gasket product they offered at one time or another since 1969.
I will not use Fel-Pro head gaskets on any performance FoMoCo application.
Take that for what it's worth. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-05-2004 08:54 PM
what would be your next choices after the Victor-Reinz Alex?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-05-2004 09:31 PM
None!
The only other product I would use for competition applications would be a Cometic MLS or a dsc. Both would be built to my custom specifications.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-05-2004 09:46 PM
Alex - How do the victor reinz head gaskets hold up? Do they last longer than the fel pros? Also are these a newer gasket? I can't seem to get ahold of them in canada. I am going to be putting the motor back together on wednesday or thursday. Is it possible to have these gaskets shipped down here within a few days or so. Thanks once again.
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-05-2004 09:51 PM
the best for non-competition then? or is it a "best and then the rest" type deal. [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-05-2004).]
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9489
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-05-2004 09:56 PM
The Victor gaskets cured my brand M problem just like Alex said. 
The Edelbrock recomended fel-pros blew out. SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-05-2004 10:23 PM
We have never blown a Victor Reintz head gasket. NEVER! I have blown every other brand on the planet.
 If you have a $10 engine then $10 gaskets will be fine for you Dubz.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-05-2004 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BLACK65FORDFALCON:
Alex - How do the victor reinz head gaskets hold up? Do they last longer than the fel pros? Also are these a newer gasket? I can't seem to get ahold of them in canada. I am going to be putting the motor back together on wednesday or thursday. Is it possible to have these gaskets shipped down here within a few days or so. Thanks once again.
Don't you have NAPA auto parts stores in BC?
I know there are some in Toronto and Ontario. 
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-05-2004 10:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
If you have a $10 engine then $10 gaskets will be fine for you Dubz.
point taken
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-05-2004 11:27 PM
Take alex's advice on this one. I did and am glad I did. I blew the felpros out in 4 places. 2 cylinders on both heads. 2,4,5,7 I believe were the cylinders, mine blew into the water jackets and would pressurize the cooling system over about 4,500 rpm and blow coolant out the overflow and all over everything. The victor reintz cured it! I used arp head bolts to as it is a good investment with the smaller 7/16 head bolts they don't hold as much pressure down onto the gaskets.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-06-2004 01:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Don't you have NAPA auto parts stores in BC?I know there are some in Toronto and Ontario.
are they available at any NAPA store??edit: hopped on the napa site and found them
NGA3428SG $45.99 [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-06-2004).]
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-06-2004 02:42 AM
I just realized that there is indeed a napa out where I live. I will give them a call tommorrow morning. I don't think that they will have them in stock so I will order them and get them here as quickly as possible. I hope this fixes my pesky slow coolant leak from the head gaskets. Thanks once again.
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-06-2004 09:00 AM
Don't worry, it will.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-06-2004 11:43 AM
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-06-2004 01:27 PM
Just got off the phone with napa auto parts, And my victor reinz head gaskets should be here tommorrow morning.The victor gaskets have a compressed thickness of .45, And my old fel pro 1011-2 have a .39 compressed thickness. Am I going to loose more compression with the victor gaskets over the fel pros? Or would it not even be noticeable? Thanks once again.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 7249
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 01:32 PM
i was under the impression that the fel-pros had a .045 compression also.------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.33 @92mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-06-2004 01:59 PM
The fel pro 1011-2 has a .39 compressed thickness. I double checked the package that they came out of.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 7249
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 02:11 PM
well heck, i learn something every day!
unless you are trying to pick up .0001 in et to break a record, i dont think you will ever notice the difference between the .039 and the .045. just my opinion, i have been wrong before. good luck------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.33 @92mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-06-2004 02:40 PM
Aren't the victors .042 compressed? That's what it says on the packaging mine were in. That's only a .003 differ, either way you aren't going to notice it I don't think.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-06-2004 03:42 PM
I just got off the phone with napa auto parts again. It appears that there is 2 different types of victor reinz gaskets for the small block application.The first one is the one that I ordered. It is part # 3428sg. It is $60.99 (canadian), And is 0.45 compressed thickness. The second one is part # 3428. It is way cheaper - $30.19. It is 0.42 compressed thickness. Why is the price so muck cheaper on the 0.42 compressed ones? I ordered the expensive ones, Should I have got the cheaper ones? Thanks once again.
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-06-2004 04:00 PM
owch, i went in and asked, and was told $165 for the pairmaybe he looked up the wrong thing [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-06-2004).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-06-2004 04:48 PM
3428 SG------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-06-2004 05:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
3428 SG
yes, i know, didn't write it down though, so by the time i got to the store it was gone from my brain
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 12-06-2004 08:04 PM
Well I think i made a mistake when i originally put the fel pro (1011-2) gaskets on. I re read the edelbrock instructions and it said that if you are running 10 or 12 to 1 compression or you are running nitrous/blower then the 1011-2 is the right gasket. I am only running 9 to 1 comp, No nitrous/blower. The other part # i can't remember right now, But it was for engines running compression between 8 and 10 to 1. So to make a long story short I used the wrong head gaskets. I think I will still try the victor reinz head gaskets. However, Are the victor reinz head gaskets designed for a 9 to 1 motor or are they for high compression engines? I don't wan't to make a mistake like I did last time and have to tear apart the motor for a third time. Any help would be greatly appeciated. Thanks once again.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-06-2004 08:08 PM
You didn't make any mistakes.
The "high compression" gaskets are just a better quality and have a stainless compression ring.
They just don't seal up or sustain worth a crap. The 3428SG Victor product can be used on any compression engine. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 12-06-2004 09:28 PM
Thanks once again Alex. I will let everyone know how it goes when I have the motor back together with the victor gaskets. Thanks.
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 12-08-2004 02:20 AM
Well I do have a bit of a update to report. I got my new victor gaskets today (3428sg). I decided to do another coolant pressure check before installing the new victor gaskets. I ran alot of pressure through the system and would you beleive that there was no leaking. This is very strange. The first time I did this test (about a week ago) coolant was leaking out of the head gasket area. I retorqued the head bolts and the problem came back the next day. Today it was bone dry when I did the test. I don't know what the heck is going on, I am baffled. Maybe I will keep an eye on it for a day or 2 and if the leak dosen't come back I will return the gaskets ($150 canadian). Does anyone know what is going on here? Thanks once again.[This message has been edited by BLACK65FORDFALCON (edited 12-08-2004).]
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
|
posted 12-08-2004 10:49 AM
That's the nature of alum heads. They have a much higher expansion rate than steel or iron. When the motor gets up to running temperature the heads expand more and quicker than the block or the bolts. This causes the gaskets to compress even more than the original torque. After a full cool down the torque readings can change drastically. Sometimes it takes a couple of retorques to get a consistant seal. Same goes for alum. intakes. ------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.50 @ 116 mph (7.33 @ 93 mph)daily driver!
DanH
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-08-2004 11:17 AM
Yup!------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 12-08-2004 02:04 PM
So should I be worried. Or should I just leave it alone and be happy with it. It for some reason didn't leak when doing a pressure test (yesterday). However a couple of days before that I had come out to my car in the morning and opened the hood and there was a coolant leak in the head gasket are. When running my fingers down the head gasket line I had little puddles of green coolant on my fingers. Then when I did a pressure check there was no leaking. What should I do, And how accurate is a coolant pressure check. Thanks once again.
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BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 12-08-2004 02:08 PM
Oops sorry, I just re read bluestreeks post and it seems like the best thing to do is re torque the head bolts until you get a consistent seal. Thanks.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-08-2004 02:16 PM
I would replace the gaskets, then re-torque after warm up.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
BLACK65FORDFALCON
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: Sidney, B.C
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 12-08-2004 04:15 PM
Thanks Alex - I think that is what it probalbly is going to come down to.
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