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Author
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Topic: Ranchero VS El Ca on Full Throttle
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-29-2004 11:14 AM
   
Curious what the Turbo Nerd Twins are going to do with these cars. Probably put up a 396 Chev to a 400 Ford.
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wrksnfx
Gearhead Posts: 262
From: Warren,MI,Macomb
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 11-29-2004 01:20 PM
This was shown on thanksgiving day and I missed it.(argh)  but it will be rebroadcast this Wednesday December 1,2004.And will be ready to record this this time seeing that I own a 1979 Ranchero 500. 
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-29-2004 04:14 PM
It looks like they get Crate Engines!! Cool this should actually be a good one. Anyone seen it?
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 328
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 11-29-2004 09:55 PM
I haven't seen it yet, but I wonder if the crate engines are equal? Or do they give one a small block and one a big block and call it fair? I think they should do a 427 Camaro vs a 428 or 427 Mustang. Now that would be race!!!------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's. Full Roller c-6 trans and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6723 [This message has been edited by f100cleveland (edited 11-29-2004).]
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-29-2004 10:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by f100cleveland:
I think they should do a 427 Camaro vs a 428 or 427 Mustang. Now that would be race!!!
Well, I don't think we (being the Ford camp) would want that race. sorry... ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 328
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 11-29-2004 10:40 PM
You don't think like a GT500 with the 427 or the later 428CJ would do good against a 427 Camaro? I figured it would be a very good race.------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's. Full Roller c-6 trans and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6723
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Lightning Fast Fords
Gearhead Posts: 144
From: Charlotte , N.C. USA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 11-29-2004 11:51 PM
I seriously doubt a 427 Chevy is going to lose to a 428CJ.The 427 Chevy's were for the Vettes and migrated to the COPO Camaro's after Don Yenko Chevy in Cannonsburgh Pa. talked Chevy into making them available to avoid the added hassle of his dealership doing engine swaps to make the Yenko/SC. Yenko also produced a limited number of Super Nova's with the 427 in it..and that would dust the Camaro...a 427 Yenk Chevelle was also produced in very limited numbers. I'm sure many saw the Muscle Car shoot out on Speed...and if you did? The 429 Boss Mustang barely inched by the 454 Chevelle LS6...so this really make sme feel like a 428CJ Stang would get spanked by a 427 ------------------
2000 Crown Victoria (Performance and Handling Package. 1994 SVT Ford F-150 Lightning 1988 Turbo Coupe Thunderbird (5-Speed) 1988 Crown Victoria Police Package (Modified to the max) 1968 Torino GT (Fastback) 351C 4V with B&M C6 Tranny
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 850
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-30-2004 10:19 AM
If the cars were of equal weight I would bet that the 428 would spank the 427 Chevy. You can't gauge anything by how a Boss 429 did. By the time Ford got through de-tuning them they were not very fast. Ford in those days took the approach that powerful engines were to be in the factory race team cars and much slower versions were sold to the general public. The only exceptions were the 427 solid lifter versions which only came in full sized (heavy) cars except for a couple of glorious fairlane years, and the 428 Cobra Jet which was put together from pieces of other FE's by Tasca Ford.If you look at the cars in NHRA Stock eliminator you will see that there are several classes dominated by the 428's. John
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Lightning Fast Fords
Gearhead Posts: 144
From: Charlotte , N.C. USA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 11-30-2004 02:22 PM
JC, Point well made and taken on "Tasca Ford" However we are talking about stock vehicles , not NHRA Racers. I still drool over pictures of the Tasca Cobra Jet Stangs..and I've even thought about putting a Tasca Dealership Badge on my Torino out of respect , if nothing else. However..with cars on a show like Full Throttle were as we are dealing with primarily stock vehicles , with maybe a crate motor or a stroker crate motor with exhaust upgrades...I'm willing to bet the El Camino is going to come out on top. Forgive me for this comment..and keep in mind I'm as die-hard a Ford guy as anyone..but if given a chance to own either a Ranchero or an El Camino..I'd be looking El Camino in SS trim all day long , if for the better looks if nothing else. Flame away..I have an opinion and the fire retardent screen to deal with it too (LOL)
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 850
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-30-2004 05:12 PM
The parts that Tasca Ford assembled were the same parts that came in all Cobra Jet Mustangs. The cars that race in NHRA Stock eliminator were all available to the public.The Cobra Jet was king of the street back in the day. All this stuff you read about Chevy dominance was primarily in the imagination of magazine editors. Incidentally I used to own a 70 El Camino and I have raced small block Chevy's. John
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-30-2004 06:50 PM
I would have liked to see a 72 GT Model. Best looking hands down of the 72-76 Models.
www.ranchero.us
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 11-30-2004 07:55 PM
just sick of hearing how one motor will spank another. fact is ive eaten my share of bigblock cars including the "oh so bad" 426 hemi. by the way, i run a late model 302 on pump gas, no adder, in a car that is not on a diet, full street trim. i dont think a 427 chevy is anything to fear, and i like chevys too. the fact is i like that which is quick. fender badges, racing stripes, and pistol grip shifters dont equal quick. big block doesnt mean quick. full throttle is a pathetic show. there is nothing interesting, much less educational and the sponsers would be wise to pull their products. as far as the comment that the 429 was detuned, just look at stock racers. fact is everything that ever left a factory production line was detuned. el caminos or rancheros are nothing more than novelties. worthless as a truck, worthless as a car, and ugly to boot. im sure some will disagree with me on this last point, some people just like ugly. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.
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Mooney
Gearhead Posts: 1691
From: Marietta, Ga
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-30-2004 08:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by chip67:
some people just like ugly.
But when you like ugly; you don't go home lonely!!! 
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-30-2004 08:05 PM
As someone who actually lived the muscle car era (as John did) I would like to put my perspective in on the 427 Camaro vs 428CJ Mustang.
Having been fortunate enough to drive and own several 428 Mustangs, and drive a few 427 Camaro's including a Yenko in the very early 1970's, I can tell you first hand that car for car, the Mustang would win hands down. Stick or auto. Especially the stick.
The 1969 428 CJ Mustang was a complete package. Engine, trans, rear end, suspension, tires, etc. Whether it was a Mach 1 or not, there were many mandatory options that made the car work better.
The 427 Camaro was an after thought with no regard given to the entire package. Cheap rear shocks and crappy springs, to keep the price down. That's why it was relegated to COPO status only.
It was engineered strictly for straight line acceleration. Drag racing period, to be modified by drag racers. It was never intended to be a daily driver with big port heads, solid lifters, and a 850 Holley.
The great equalizer was the suspension and the tires of the day. You could not launch a 427 stick Camaro at any RPM without incuring severe wheel spin and subsequent wheel hop.
The automatic was not much better. The cheap a$$ Uniroyal Tiger Paws that GM installed on those cars were junk. You could smoke them with a 307 two barrel Camaro.
In 1969 all of the 428 cars came with superior (for the day) Goodyear Polyglas tires. Street racers soon figured out that with higher air pressure and some juditial starting line techniques, you could almost launch a high horsepower car with them.
Couple those tires with a well engineered suspension, staggered HD rear shocks, and a prefered rear overhang, you had a killer street package that you could drive to school or work daily.
Magazine road tests of the era were all over the place depending on the geographic location of the test and driver capabilities.
SS&DI, Car Craft, Hot Rod, High Performance Cars all were more drag strip orientated rags compared to C&D, R&T, MT, etc. The drag rags had a tendancy to "tweak" the cars (and many times the numbers) for editorial contents sake. 
The "fuzzy shoe and wooden button" rag drivers never power shifted, and weren't very good at finessing the cars off of the starting line. Also many of those rags used inaccurate 5th wheel timing devices.
I still remember a MT road test of a 4000 lb 421 cube 65 Pontiac 2+2 that alledgedly clocked a 13.20 quarter mile ET. 
Anyway, first hand experiance recalls pure stock 428 CJ Mustang with auto trans and street tires in the 13.70 range @ 101-102 MPH.
13.50ish @ 103-04 for a stick.
A stock 427 Camaro was hard pressed to get into the 13's at all as first gear was pretty much useless.
They could run 14.0 at BIG speed. Usually 108+ becuase of the HP, but traction was always the great equalizer.
Now if you put slicks on both cars, you would have a different result. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-30-2004 08:12 PM
AHH I am glad I started this thread. Learned a lot
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 12-01-2004 09:12 PM
OH My great engine Choice a 400M ????? What are they possibly thinking and I just turned it on.
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 328
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-01-2004 10:47 PM
That was so lame. Built 383 stroker with 3500 stall and posi. The Ford got a 400 which they said had 351 Cleveland heads(they were 2 barrel versions, but most likely stock 400 heads), a 1600 stall and an open rear. WTF!?!?!?!?!?! Notice how they called it a small block and then gave them small block motor mounts and couldn't figure out why they wouldn't work? Duh!! Totally different mount on the block. What really pissed me off was the fact that they kept bashing Fords and saying how much better Chevy was. But the kicker was when they admitted that they picked Chevy guys to work on a Ford!!! Come on, this show is turning into an even bigger joke!!!! ------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's. Full Roller c-6 trans and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6723
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 12-01-2004 11:38 PM
Lost all respect for the Show now. It was like S**T I have to work on the Ford. And no Posi for the Ford either? Just give him 1000 HP and watch it do the ONE WHEEL PEEL all the way down the track instead of half way. Why didnt they just fill the rear end of the Ranchero with bricks too
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Catmando
Gearhead Posts: 139
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 12-02-2004 12:41 AM
Actually, the et's the ole Chero ran was way better than I expected. That show is real lame, I never did hear any mention of what kind of cam or compression. I can't seem to find a 400 crate engine, must have been an Autozone crate motor ha ha. But I did hear them mention some very rare hipo parts Ford had at some time ,like "stainless steel pistons"!!! Actually, watching that show was like watching Jerry Springer, made me feel much better about myself!
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Greg Pettit
Gearhead Posts: 113
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-02-2004 12:45 AM
That show is EXTREMELY lame. I mean REAL LAME.Those two guys are morons, and the people they have building the cars are even bigger morons. What a waste of airtime. Greg ------------------
'71 Torino GT 466, Edelbrock CJ RPM heads, 11.15:1, 250/262 solid flat tappet, .614/.640 lift, 850 DP, C6 w/3500 stall
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Toronado3800
Gearhead Posts: 903
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-02-2004 01:56 AM
Sounds like a show with just enough promise it hurts when it pulls up lame. Kinda like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The gal's a babe, I oughta be able to enjoy reruns at 0100 right along with Mutant X and Stargate SG1. But I can't stand Buffy for some reason.Oh, and Chip, you made an excellent point. Nothing like using a well tuned "small" motor car to walk on some expensive showroom queen who'se owner either can't bring himself to modify his 90% origional classic or thinks its bad just cause the exhaust is loud and it has a big carb.
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CometGT1974
Gearhead Posts: 393
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 12-02-2004 07:58 AM
It was a very stupid episode and not well put together, I also like the "stainless steel pistons".Seems like they would've just put a 350 chevy up against a 351W.......
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-02-2004 09:26 AM
I tried to watch the late viewing of the episode last night.
It was so exciting I fell asleep after the Ford guys figured out how to install the water pump. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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F570rd
Journeyman Posts: 81
From: mpls.mn.hennipin
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 12-02-2004 10:39 AM
400M a small block,good God.It was better than anything on the Comedy ch. had.Can you think of what would happen if you pulled into staging do'n $hitties like that.An open carrieer for the Ford and a stock stall converter.WTF [This message has been edited by F570rd (edited 12-02-2004).]
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73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 403
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 12-02-2004 11:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I tried to watch the late viewing of the episode last night.
It was so exciting I fell asleep after the Ford guys figured out how to install the water pump.
Well Alex lets just say you were better off sleeping.
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Lightning Fast Fords
Gearhead Posts: 144
From: Charlotte , N.C. USA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 12-02-2004 12:30 PM
To say the very least..this episode was the worst of the worst so far.The only saving grace about this show was the fact that me and my die-hard Chevy fan buddy were at a local pub knocking back a few cold ones while watching and lauging at the whole ordeal. My Chevy friend as biased as he is toward the Bow Ties could not belive what the Goober Brothers tried to stage here. I sure how they go back to exact make and model head to head challenges..cuz they sure as hell do not understand how to wage a fair challenge between competing makes and models I'll bet the makers of the other show on the Speed Channel are laughing their collective asses off at these people.
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