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Author
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Topic: It runs!.....But....
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-25-2004 07:04 PM
  
After three days of thrashing, we got my new motor fired up for the first time last night. We were trying to get it ready to run today for the first and cheapest day of Farmington's 4 day Thanksgiving weekend race. Anyways, back to the story; after fighting with the headers (anyone who claims Hooker Super Comp cleveland headers fit a clevor without any trouble have obviously never tried it), and having to alter a bracket or two, we finally got the motor in the car, and ready to run. We fired it last night (wednesday), and it sounded pretty good. However, it had a slight water leak. We fixed that (blue silicone) and shoved it out of the garage till morning. KK and myself got up real early and headed to Winston-Salem to finish up a couple of minor details on the car, get it loaded, and head to the track. We reset the timing (we decided to lock it out after we had it running wednesday night) and it developed a small water leak. We fixed that, and after letting it run to get warmed up real good (now when it idles it sounds pi**ed off at the world), we noticed a very substantial transmission leak.  After a little investigation, we determined it is either leaking out the front pump seal, or out the bolts that hold the UltraBell on (the leak is coming from inside the bellhousing.) Either way, the trans has to come out. So, barring anymore un-foreseen catastrophes, we will run it next weekend at the last race of the year. Then we'll see what the next weakest link is. 
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2649
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-25-2004 10:05 PM
KV, dont know if you remember back when I posted and David responded about the problems with the Ultra bell leaking around the front pump bolts. I cured mine with silicone on the bolts. Good Luck!
------------------
JS
"never submit yourself to scientific tests no matter how bad you need the money, for all you know they could have erased your memory and YOU WERE REALLY SOMEBODY BEFORE"
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 784
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-25-2004 10:37 PM
Mine got cured that way also, but now I have another leak someplace. Doesn't do it all the time so its been rather hard to trace.Dang GM transmission! Maybe Alex could get his trans buddy JPT to build a 2 speed C4. Hmmmmmm.  ------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 23519
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-26-2004 08:51 AM
Rob, when cross breeding always use some KW Block Seal. You can't go wrong with it. I love the folks at JW as they are indeed a class act.
Unfortunately I am not a fan of their FoMoCo bell housings for a multitude of reasons. JPT has several custom C-4's 1 and 2 speed in the field.
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-26-2004 09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jsracingbbf:
KV, dont know if you remember back when I posted and David responded about the problems with the Ultra bell leaking around the front pump bolts. I cured mine with silicone on the bolts. Good Luck!
I remembered it after it started leaking.  Bad timing huh? We plan on using some silicone on them also if that is where the leak is coming from.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-26-2004 09:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Rob, when cross breeding always use some KW Block Seal. You can't go wrong with it.
The first water leak was leaking thru the threads on the thermostat housing/upper radiator hose mount Dave made. The second one was out the weep hole of the water pump (some water pump lube and a little anti-freeze fixed that one.)
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 910
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 11-26-2004 12:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
we noticed a very substantial transmission leak.
When mine was leaking it wasn't a substantial leak when it was the bolts around the pump. It was just enough to make everything messy, but it wasn't pouring out. It's that bad, I would bet it's the front seal. One other thing to look at: A buddy of mine had this happen and it was pouring fluid. When he cut the bellhousing off the glide to mount the Ultra-bell he left a little high spot on one side. It was near the servo fluid passage. It kept the bell fron fully seating against the pump on the that side. Without it fully seated and pressing the pump (and the pump O-ring) it would leak badly. Once we figured it out and ground the high spot down the leak was gone. The newer Ultra-bell's are cut for a small o-ring around each mounting bolt hole. That has cured most of the problem. Another buddy of mine used a step drill and made a recess of the back side of his as well. So, each pump bolt has an O-ring on both sides of the bell. Dry as a bone now. David Cole ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-26-2004 12:34 PM
It wasnt pouring out, but it was leaking bad enough I think they would have shut me off. It especially leaked when the rpm was up a little. At first we thought it was lines leaking, but quickly ruled that out when we saw it running out of the bellhousing.Thanks Dave, I'll make sure we check for a high spot also. KK's brother cut the bell off mine, and he's done several before, but that doesn't rule it out. We'll get the trans out this week, and figure out where the leak is coming from.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 40687
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-26-2004 01:32 PM
Here's pics of kid's new mill:  
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8414
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-27-2004 04:59 PM
Rob,Looks very BadAssed! Good luck with the tranny and have a great time with it next week. SteveW
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 17425
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-27-2004 05:20 PM
The motor looks real good  ------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-02-2004 09:57 PM
Update: It was leaking from the bolts that holds the UltraBell on. And, David also found the case was cracked. He then cut the bell off another case and transfered the internals from mine into it. No leaks now. Hopefully that big motor wont break anything in the drivetrain this weekend.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8414
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-02-2004 10:40 PM
Rob,Good luck and have fun with it on its shakedown runs! You deserve to have some good luck. SteveW
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 148
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 12-03-2004 12:01 AM
Kid V, what intake are you using? I can't make out what the writing on the runner says. Thanks------------------
1982 Ford F100 2wd Shortbox. Powered by a 357 Cleveland w/ closed chamber 4v's. Full Roller c-6 trans and 4.86 geared Detroit Locker equipped 9" rear. http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6723 -1982 F100 351c 4v powered. http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6727 -1977 F150 460 Burnout Truck
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-03-2004 07:29 AM
Shakedown runs = Wide Open  The intake is a Vapours "Active" that is from Australia. I had one awhile a couple of years ago and was so impressed with it I sold it for a loss. But since this one was professionally ported and epoxied to match the heads (it came with the motor), it should be better than the one I had.
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 784
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-03-2004 10:09 PM
I'm really anxious to hear some numbers from this thing.Hopefully the planetaries will last long enough to wring it out!  Bad thing is it'll be faster than my Falcon. Guess I can live with that. ------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'
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XR7
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 12-03-2004 10:57 PM
Good luck at the track Kid! Can you post some pics of the car? What are you thinking it will run? How much rpm are you going to spin it?
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-04-2004 07:30 AM
The car can be seen here;
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/kidvishus.htmlAt first, I'm going to be real conservative with it. It only has 33* of timing in it, and I'm only going to spin it 6500 or so. The guys I bought the motor from said it was fastest with 35-36* of timing, and shifting it at 7500. I'm figuring it should run at least 6.10 or so right off the trailer. KK's brother thinks it will go 5.90's, but I prefer to set the bar a little lower.
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 178
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 12-04-2004 07:43 AM
Pictures look great !! Good luck with new motor thanks jim1320
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XR7
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 12-05-2004 07:58 PM
How did it go Kid? And what heads are you running?
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-05-2004 10:02 PM
It didn't go anywhere near as hoped.
The heads are closed chamber 4v 'C' heads that have been ported and epoxied. They flow a bunch of air.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 23519
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-05-2004 10:27 PM
Sorry. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8414
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-05-2004 11:08 PM
Rob,Come on and give us the blow by blow. We can take it. We've probably been there before. But, do it quick, I have to go on a business trip in the AM and won't be back 'til Thursday. SteveW
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 07:20 AM
Long story made short; I think (about 90% positive) it sheared the pin in the camshaft on the second pass.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 23519
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-06-2004 11:42 AM
Ouch! ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 934
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 12-06-2004 06:04 PM
Been there, done that! How bad are your valves?------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V, best time to date is 10.50 best MPH 127
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 08:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by clevelandstyle:
Been there, done that! How bad are your valves?
Me too. This is the 3rd time for me, but the first one that I didn't build. Don't know how bad the valves are yet. I'm in no hurry to pull it out and take it apart. It's still sitting on the trailer, and probably will be for another month or so.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 08:27 PM
And I would like to add, I have lost ALL desire to run roller cams now. The little hp advantage they offer is no where near worth all this crap.
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 338
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-06-2004 09:30 PM
That really sucks Rob!
I think we should get a cam company to cut splines on the cam snout and cam gear like axles are, would put an end to the broken pin crap. would also be cool for cam timing changes.
Roger
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 23519
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-06-2004 09:47 PM
I wouldn't pass judgement just yet Rob.
At least pull something apart.
Maybe the chain broke, or the keyway in the crank?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 910
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 12-06-2004 10:16 PM
Rob, was the cam double pinned? My 557 is set up with an extra pin in the timing gear as BBF's are known for that problem with high spring pressures.David Cole ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5852
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-07-2004 07:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_C:
Rob, was the cam double pinned?
I have no idea, but I doubt it. The motor was assembled when I got it. I doubt the chain broke. It still turns over, and all the rockers move. However, right after it shut off, the rotor was pointed about 50* out from where it should have been. Keyway in the crank is possible though. I'll find out what happened for sure after we (David and myself) pull the motor out. And we decided, we are going to take it clear apart so we can put it back together. That way we know for sure what I have, and we at least know how it was assembled. (It will also give me a chance to change cams if I think this one is too big.)
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