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Author
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Topic: front cover
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 184
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-18-2004 09:49 PM
   
I am building a 331, based on a late model roller block. My original front cover off of my 65 289 is corroded inside, and needs to be replaced. I want to use as much off my old block in building this new engine. (The rotating assembly is going to be a 28oz imbalance) My crank pulley is a 3 hole. Can I buy a new early style cover, and will it fit ok on the new 302 roller block? Or go with a late style?
I would like to buy an ATI damper, which one should I buy? (stay with a three hole, or go to a four and get a new pulley?)I want to re-use my water pump, its only a year old Flowkooler, will that fit? I'm obviously confused.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-18-2004 11:00 PM
The early style repop cover will fit the later block.
You car get a multi hole balancer or the one you have pulleys for.
Why do you want the ATI balancer?
There are many others with equal or better quality for less.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 184
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-19-2004 07:37 AM
Thanks Alex,
Any recommendations on the damper? The guy that is doing the build on my new engine recommended ATI. That is what he uses. Any other suggestions?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-19-2004 11:08 AM
Power Bond.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 184
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-19-2004 05:43 PM
Is that who makes the FRPP balancer?
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4377
From: Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-19-2004 08:08 PM
The FRPP balancer is an Aussie unit... can't recall the name at the moment. It has two bolt patterns for the pulley; three and four hole. It is a meaty sucker... you'll need to shave the cover just under the water pump flange for clearance. ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-19-2004 08:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 65driver:
Is that who makes the FRPP balancer?
Yes. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-19-2004 08:47 PM
I got one of those units from Alex, it's a great unit and it looks and fits good.------------------
SCOOP oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 184
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-19-2004 09:47 PM
Alex, is Power Bond the same as Pro Race, by Cyco of Australia? Do you sell those, or either if they are different?Also, I was looking at NPD for front covers, they sell 2 different styles, one with a cast pointer (pointer on drivers side, just like I have) and one that fits 67-73, with a bolt-on pointer. Is the pointer on the drivers side for the 67-73, also? Which one should I get? Does it matter? The ATI website lists pointer tabs at 10, 11, and 2 o'clock on a SBF. How can that be, I thought TDC was TDC, so how can you have that at 3 different spots on the damper? It looks like ATI lists 3 different models, is that for the 3 different positions? But FRPP lists only 1? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing with my 331 build. BTW, I ordered the rotating assembly today.
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 11-20-2004 01:20 PM
Here's what I know. The FRPP damper is made by Cyco in Australia. Don't know if they make the Powerbond dampers. I do know that they also make the Summit Racing in-house brand. The Summit and FRPP damper are identical except for the logo that's engraved. I have a FRPP damper on my 557 BBF. I had a Summit brand on the 383W stroker in my 69 Mustang before I sold it to buy the dragster. The Summit SBF damper had:
1. both 3 and 4 bolt bolt patterns for the pulley
2. removeable counterweight so you could switch from 28 oz to 50oz or 0 balance with a weight change or removal
3. two sets of timing marks, which one you used depended upon the location of your timing tab
4. It had two crank keyways. The paperwork said some early engines had a keyway in a different location (but TDC was still the same) Cyco/Pro-Race/Summit/FRPP:
http://www.pro-race.com/removable_counterweights.htm As far as the timing pointers goes, TDC is still the same, but the *marks* are in different locations depending on where the timing tab is located. Over the years the pointer was in different locations. Not sure on which timing cover to tell you to get. I know the early 289 covers were made for the early type water pump that didn't use a backing plate. I would go with the later one unless you intend to use the old style pump. You can see the diffs in the two cover style in these eBay auctions:
newer style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33625&item=79347 06558&rd=1 older style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=45044 54591&rd=1 ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing. [This message has been edited by Dave_C (edited 11-20-2004).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-20-2004 01:50 PM
Later cover also requires the use of the later water pump which is reverse rotation.
That sets up an entire new group of issues.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 11-20-2004 02:11 PM
Here's one like Alex mentions, for a reverse rotation water pump:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33625&item=7935228086&rd=1Notice that the water passages are angled in another direction. The "D" shaped part of the passages are reversed. And then to confuse things even further, for the last couple of years of the 5.0 it was in the Explorer. These used a reverse rotaion pump without a backing plate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33625&item=7935377943&rd=1 David Cole ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
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65driver
Gearhead Posts: 184
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-23-2004 09:51 PM
Thanks for all the info so far, BUT, still got a problem. I called FRPP about the balancer, and they said that whatever front cover I buy, it can't have the rear installed seal. The balancer would not clear early timing chanin covers with a rear installed seal. He did not know what year that the seal is installed from the front. I called Summit, they have a universal fit ( be scared) that has the seal installed from front, but it is odd looking: part number is SES-5-60-04-201. They said that it should work with the FRPP balancer. So its either that one or buy the 68-73 style and hope it fits. What do you guys think?
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 11-23-2004 10:07 PM
Hmmmm.... I used an early cover (C8AE) on my 383W. It had the seal installed from the rear. No problem with the damper install (Summit brand). I still have the cover in my shop. I replaced it with another one after I broke an ear off it.The only gotcha I had was with an aftermarket aluminum water pump (same as the Milodon pump) The damper is larger than stock diameter and hit the bottom of the water pump. I had to lightly clearance it with a die grinder.
David Cole
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557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-23-2004 11:12 PM
I have installed dozens of aftermarket balancers with old style covers.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
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