|
Author
|
Topic: Making Power with O/C 4V C Heads
|
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-16-2004 03:00 PM
   
OK guys I was wondering if anybody has some good proven O/C head combos for a 351C 4v. I need to make as much power as possible, the motor will be pushing a Tank 73 Gran Torino Fastback. I am in the beginning stages right now with the block at the shop getting Magged and cleaned. I would appreciate any good proven combos that make power. I know a lot of people swear by the CC heads but I really dont want to go that route. I would like to be in the 400+ HP range because of this cars weight. Any help is much appreciated.
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-16-2004 05:47 PM
Couple of questions need answered first.
Is it a street/strip car, strictly a race car or just a hot weekend cruiser? Do you want it to run on pumpgas? Does the car have powerbrakes? What trans does it have?
Do you want to mess with a solid cam or would you prefer to have a hydro cam?
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-16-2004 06:51 PM
Kid,
It will be a Hot Weekend Cruiser that wont ever see a long trip and occasional track time. Probably a 40 mile max trip, if that, once a year. Would like it to run on Pump Ultra if possible but if I will be able to run a mixture and increase my power by a lot I would definitely entertain the idea. The car has power brakes. Trans will be the original Toploader 4 speed that it came with from the factory. The cam is one of the main things I am having trouble figuring out which way to go.
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-17-2004 06:45 PM
Bump for Kids input.
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-17-2004 10:05 PM
I would run flat tops in a zero decked block, and have the heads flat milled .040. That will get the compression up to a decent ratio that should still be premium friendly. I would put a dual plane intake on it since the car is rather heavy. Camshaft should be no more than 225 @ .050 on the intake side for the power brakes to work sufficiently without a vacuum canister. I would also have a little port work done on the heads when the valves are being replaced. I'm know I've left stuff out, but I had a long day at work and am rather tired.
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-17-2004 11:41 PM
Any thoughts on the Blue Thunder Dual Plane? Thanks for the info much appreciated. No hurry get some sleep  [This message has been edited by 73torinoqcode (edited 11-17-2004).]
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-18-2004 07:58 AM
I have no experiance with it, but have heard it's a really good intake; although it's rather expensive.
IP: Logged |
73STANG
Journeyman Posts: 79
From: Lincoln, NE
Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 11-18-2004 01:17 PM
I just use 12 pounds of boost from a 6-71 blower Seriously though, I would listen to Kid Vishus. He seems to have the most experience with 351 Clevelands.
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-18-2004 04:27 PM
I know Kid knows the C well and I remembered from past threads there was someone who was running O/Cs and was making good power with them, I believe it was him and glad he chimed in on the topic. It was much appreciated and a 671 just does not fit the budget or under the hood LOL.
IP: Logged |
fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 11-18-2004 04:58 PM
i was looking forward to the answers to your question for my spare "c" motor. especially since i found that the closed chamber heads i picked up are junk.
if you do a search, there is a good thread with a number of "c" builds i asked the other members for. it was just 2 or 3 months ago.------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-18-2004 09:46 PM
 I'm definately not the most knowledge-able person about clevelands. But I have done my fair share of 'poor mans' racing with them and made more power than I rightfully should have.
But anyways, after more thought, here is more ramblings; Open chamber heads can make just as much power as closed chamber heads. And actually, at low lifts the valves are unshrouded more and flow just a tick better. The only drawback to them is the large chamber is rather detonation prone. I have successfully run 10.5-1 in a street car on pump gas. The key to making it work on the street without pinging, is to run a camshaft that has enough duration it will bleed off some of the compression in the lower rpms. My street motor that had domed pistons and uncut open chamber heads had a solid cam that was 235/245 duration @ .050 on a 108 LSA. If it had detonation, I never heard it. I really think flat tops, decked block, and shaved heads would work even better. However, I think it will need a bit more cam than I first posted to help keep it from detonating. You wont be able to get carried away with timing, something around 35 or 36* would probably be the max you could run. With the flat top pistons you probably wont need more than that anyways. And just for info, the last set of heads on my race motor were open chambered heads. They had been flat milled .050, and the chambers were 67 cc's. My car ran faster with that set of heads than with a similar motor that had closed chamber heads that were ported similarly, but slightly less on the exhuast.
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-18-2004 10:48 PM
Ramble On Brother I am sponging it all up. Thanks again Bill
IP: Logged |
racingjunkie
Journeyman Posts: 11
From: Sebringville Ontario Canada
Registered: Oct 2003
|
posted 11-19-2004 06:26 PM
My current 351c is in my 72 Mach1, it is my street car. The engine is a .030 351c ,stock rods,crank,high volume oil pump,Motorsport pump shaft. Open chamber heads with stainless valves,no port work of any kind,Motorsport roller rockers.The pistons are TRW L 2348 I think,they are domed top.Double roller timing chain. The camshaft is a solid lifter grind, if you have any older Ford Motorsport parts books it is the smaller of the two 351c cams they offered.It uses a Holley strip dominator intake and a 750 cfm Holley carb, dual feed dual pump,Holley blue electric pump. MSD billet dis, with 6al box and blaster coil.I use the Hooker Super competition headers. The car is factory weight about 3460 lbs + who knows how much for stereo equipmentLOL!
I run a C-6 with shift improver kit,no stall convertor,front sway bar still attached(it is a street car)3:91 gear 28" tall x 9" wide Hoosier slicks. My wife footbrakes the Mach to so far a best of 12:85 @ 111.78 mph.You don't need alot of money to make a 351c run,I hope this gives you more ideas.....good luck with your build.
IP: Logged |
73torinoqcode
Gearhead Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 11-20-2004 01:33 AM
Thanks a lot. I have the AA casting heads. I am going to have to get the heads done to except the larger valve as mine are the small valves.[This message has been edited by 73torinoqcode (edited 11-20-2004).]
IP: Logged |
fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 11-20-2004 09:55 AM
i really appreciate the help everyone here hands out. this is another post i printed out to use as reference to help me build up my spare motor using the good set of open chamber heads i have. this is the best group of people anywhere!!!!
thanks again!
p.s. thanks for asking the question i forgot to ask!------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
IP: Logged |
Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 587
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
|
posted 11-20-2004 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by fastford34:
i was looking forward to the answers to your question for my spare "c" motor. especially since i found that the closed chamber heads i picked up are junk.
if you do a search, there is a good thread with a number of "c" builds i asked the other members for. it was just 2 or 3 months ago.
Where did you pick up the heads? I know where your spare block came from.  ------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 600 Holley ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 13.25 @ 103mph
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-20-2004 06:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by fastford34:
especially since i found that the closed chamber heads i picked up are junk.
What's wrong with them?
IP: Logged |
fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 11-20-2004 06:51 PM
TOM, i found the heads in the local paper for a low price. 
the same week i picked up a recently cleaned open chamber set in York,Pa.Kid, i dropped the heads off with a local engine builder for a clean up & new valves/valve job. he called me the same day i left them there with the news...cracked! BOTH HEADS!
 !!!! ------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice. [This message has been edited by fastford34 (edited 11-20-2004).]
IP: Logged |
kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 11-20-2004 06:57 PM
Where are they cracked?(edit; oops, I re-read the post and answered one of my questions. ) [This message has been edited by kid vishus (edited 11-20-2004).]
IP: Logged |
fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 11-20-2004 07:02 PM
i need to look again to be sure but if my memory is correct, it`s along the coolant passages into the valves. the builder said it looked like it was run HOT a LONG time!------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
IP: Logged |
Mustangsandmore Forums
