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Author
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Topic: which rings?
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-05-2004 02:59 PM
   
No its not my wedding anniversary.I am unsure whether Low tension rings are suitable. Application will be:
331 (30 over)
SRP pistons (1/16 1st and 2nd - 3/16 oil)
AFR 185 heads
Hyrdaulic roller cam ~XE273HR
RPM intake Naturally aspirated hoping to clear the 400hp mark at the flywheel. (DTD says 421) So Im thinking I want low tension, since I dont intend on a blower or nitrous in the near future but want to keep friction down to meet my hp goal. But I dont know much about ring tension so perhaps you folks know more. Im thinking about JE moly rings to match the SRP pistons. Id like to keep cost around 100 sheets. TIA ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-05-2004 03:08 PM
Speed Pro is good stuff.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-05-2004 03:48 PM
OK more questions Im afraid.Todd I know you are familiar with the SCAT crank. I have a 1972 block and the 9000 series crank. Which seals do I need (one piece or two piece)? I want to use a classic style timing cover and pointer and am using 28oz balancers and flex plates. And more importantly which Rod bearings do I need? I have picked out main bearings (clevite P series) but dont know if the 2.123 inch rod bearing is a standard ford size or if maybe its really a chevy journal diameter. Sorry for all the questions I just dont want to order the wrong parts and I want to make one shippment for all the remaining parts. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-05-2004 07:04 PM
Low tension rings are a big mistake for the street, unless you want to kill lots of mosquitos. My friend put some in his SBC and it would haze pretty bad on hard acceleration. The '72 block uses the 2 piece rear main seal. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 11-05-2004 10:27 PM
agree with with alex, speed pro's what i got. file fit .016-.018 myself. also agree with steve, low tension rings are not street rings. it will smoke like a sbc when you beat on it. btw, why do sbc's seem to start smoking when you beat on them? is it bad valvetrain geometry from the factory? is that why they run 1.5 rockers? not trying to bust on the sbc, i think the way the water pump/timing chain cover are better designed, but they get negative marks for the starter shims, distributor in the back, and intake/exaust port spacing. then again ford couldnt make a head that could breath without giving us a monster called the cleveland which was too big, and i wish the 302's had more head bolts. not too familiar with chrysler except to say n/a hemis are junk and get spanked on the street by smallblocks. has it got a hemi? lol. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.50 (1/8 mile) at 92mph with 1.63 60ft. time.
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mizry
Journeyman Posts: 43
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 11-06-2004 01:36 AM
speed pro hellfire, is this a race engine?
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-08-2004 07:30 AM
OK I ordered the speed pro rings.
Basic Moly set.
Also got the ARP Main studs
Cleveite P series Bearings (rod and mains)
and a tub of Comp cams engine assembly lube.Next up is change the main cap bolts to studs and get a hone job done on the mains and the bores. The pistons measure 4.0275 and I need 0.0025 of clearance, so I guess these are made for a 4.030 bore just like they said. Once the honing is done I can file fit the rings. So the next question is - Do i need a ring filer or should I just have the machine shop do it? Once the rings are filed I can put them on the pistons and dry assemble the engine. check clearances and endplay then apart again to be balanced... Am I missing anything?
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'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
IP: Logged |
Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 2060
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-08-2004 09:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by indyphil:
Do i need a ring filer or should I just have the machine shop do it?
Phil,
Because I don't rebuild an engine every year or so, I decided not to purchase a ring file. I mounted a metal file in my bench vise and pushed the ring end stroking it from outside to inside (so as not to chip the moly); keeping an eye on the end to keep it square with the other end. Gently touch off the sharp edge as you go. Every 3 or 4 strokes, put the ring back in it's cylinder about 2" down & check the end gap. Some folks would likely say that this method is probably a little primitive & slow, but it has worked for me! Good Luck!
Ryan 
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-08-2004 10:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by indyphil:
OK I ordered the speed pro rings.
Basic Moly set.
Also got the ARP Main studs
Cleveite P series Bearings (rod and mains)
and a tub of Comp cams engine assembly lube.Next up is change the main cap bolts to studs and get a hone job done on the mains and the bores. The pistons measure 4.0275 and I need 0.0025 of clearance, so I guess these are made for a 4.030 bore just like they said. Once the honing is done I can file fit the rings. So the next question is - Do i need a ring filer or should I just have the machine shop do it? Once the rings are filed I can put them on the pistons and dry assemble the engine. check clearances and endplay then apart again to be balanced... Am I missing anything?
Follow Ryan's proceedure for filing and you will be fine.
Do NOT install the rings before balancing. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-08-2004 02:14 PM
Also be sure to carefully deburr the edges after filing!------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-08-2004 02:18 PM
Thanks.
I didnt realize that I needed to leave the rings off before balancing. It makes sense now that I think about it.This is the excuse I need to buy a bench vice... and a file. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
IP: Logged |
Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 2060
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 11-08-2004 03:11 PM
Phil,
I'd ask your machine shop if they'd like you to bring along one finished (gapped) set of your rings and a rod bearing set for them to weigh...sometimes they'll want to weigh the ring set and bearing set and add that amount of weight to the determined piston weight (after they equalize the pistons to the lightest one) and con rod weight. Then they'll install that total determined weight as "bob-weight" to each of your crankshaft throws, attach your flexplate & harmonic balancer and then do the balancing act for ya....  A bench vise is a VERY GOOD tool to have around. A flat metal file or two are also good tools to have around. Don't be in a hurry, keep it clean, pay attention to detail, & you'll do fine. If you happen to screw up a ring, don't fret - you can purchase a single ring set to replace the one you mess up -- don't ask me how I know! 
Good Luck!
Ryan
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2398
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 01-04-2005 10:33 AM
OK,
im ready with my bench vice and my file.
I started out on one ring and it seems to need a lot of material to be removed.Then I stopped to think about it. My garage is cool during the winter, down around 50F so is that going to make my block/bores too small? Is there a temp I should do this work at? is 50-60 OK? Im sure im overthinking this! I wish there was an easy way of stuffing the ring into the bore to check it each time. This could take me a long time! Maybe ill get some more pictures posted as well. Thanks ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-04-2005 11:04 AM
50 degree temp is OK.
Block won't shrink that much.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
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