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Author
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Topic: Caltracs adjustment and body separation
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1966GT350
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: New Jersey
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 03:51 AM
 
Hi, I found this site looking for information on adjusting Caltracs. I��ve had the bars for about 2 years now, but still can��t get the car to hook like I think it should. I searched thru the old posts and still haven��t found exactly what I��m looking for. It seems like there are a lot of people here who have experience with them so I was hoping to get a few questions answered.Car specifics:
1966 Fastback
351W, .030 over, aprox. 400 hp
Lentech AOD, 3500 rpm converter
9��, 31-spline locker, 4.56 gears
26 x 11.5 ET Streets (12-18 psi depending on track)
3500 lbs with driver
2500 rpm launch on footbrake
Front suspension:
Shelby drop, 6 cyl. springs, 90/10 Lakewood shocks, TCP manual rack
Rear suspension:
Stock replacement springs (4 leaf), stock shackle, Ranchero 9000 shocks (set on 4),
Caltracs, about 3-4 degrees of pinion angle before preload
12 gal. fuel cell and a trunk mounted battery over the passenger tire Best ET: 11.84 @ 113.77 (last year) 11.91 @ 113.75 this year (first picture)
Best 60 ft: 1.626 (last year) 1.722 this year (first picture) Launch pictures from this year:
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/mod59.jpg
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/mod60.jpg
http://gallery.godragracing.com/photos/NMRA04/IMG_6510015.jpg
http://gallery.godragracing.com/photos/NMRA04/IMG_8528207.jpg
http://gallery.godragracing.com/photos/NMRA04/IMG_8529208.jpg
http://gallery.godragracing.com/photos/NMRA04/img_6477p.jpg As you can see from the pictures, I get a lot of body separation at the rear. This year I haven��t even been able to get a 1.6 60 foot out of the car at all. 1)How much preload to set? I know this depends a bit on the track, but I��ve tried from a ��turn to 1 full turn and it doesn��t seem to make much of a difference (same day, same tire pressure). 2)Which hole to use, upper or lower? I have always had it in the upper and have been reluctant to change it because it would be difficult to do with the subframes I have. 3)How to set the preload? I have set it static (no driver, car sitting level), with the driver in the car, and under load (car at launch rpm, bars set to the spring them set to preload). Yes, I have on crazy friend who volunteered to stick his arm under the car while it was under load. 4)How to lessen the body separation? I read about clamping the springs, if that��s how to do it, where do you place the clamps? The springs still have all the factory clamps. I also saw these shackle eliminators that are supposed to help with separation, http://www.mpgheads.com/ShackleEl/shackleinstalled.jpg any thoughts? 5)At last years NMRA meet at Atco, someone suggested using as pinion snubber set with no air gap after the bars are set. Anyone ever tried one? 6)How do these cars react to adding weight out in the fender wells? I was thinking of trying some lead shot, 25 lbs per side. 7)As a last resort, I would be open to changing the springs if someone had a good suggestion on a decent mono-leaf. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I have tried repeatedly to get the car back to where it was late last year without success. Over the winter I plan to build a stronger 351, and am wondering how I will get that one to stick. Mike
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The demon in your mind will rape you in your bed at night
[This message has been edited by 1966GT350 (edited 10-12-2004).]
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67mustangdsa
Journeyman Posts: 45
From: Xenia Ohio
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 08:50 AM
Your Shelby drop is not helping you I'm sure. Your pinion angle should be in the ball park. I use Calvert's split mono leaf spring but have the same shocks and I use 30X9 Hoosier radials. My car is set up just like Calvert says in the manual. I use the upper hole, 1/2 preload with driver in seat, and my shocks set at 5 and I've never messed with it. I have about 150 lb in the trunk to make weight for my class. I've gone 1.38 60's with this setup. I have my car setting pretty low in the front but it's loose. I have 6 cyl springs with a coil cut but I run an FE engine, about 50 lb or so heavier than yours. The body does not seem to separate. I would recommend undoing the shelby drop and adding some Calvert mono leaf springs, and maybe a weight bar in back to help consistency. Here is a pic of my car leaving.
http://www.nsca-racing.com/gallery/album13/S1stQb_033
shawn
[This message has been edited by 67mustangdsa (edited 10-04-2004).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-04-2004 10:53 AM
If you have multi leaf springs I would suggest that you clamp them front and rear.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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1966GT350
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: New Jersey
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 11:31 AM
The front end is probably getting changed to a Rod & Custom Mustang II front end this winter when the motors out. That will take care of the shelby drop. I don't see a mono spring on Calvert's site, guess I'll call them later. The quarters and wheelwells are stock, I can't get a 28" tire under the car, ruined a set of 28 x 9 ET drags that way.1) To 67mustangdsa, the weight bar lays across the frame rails at the back of the car? 2) To Moneymaker, when clamping the springs, do you put a clamp at the end of each spring (6 clamps per side on 4 leafs), or just 2 around all 4 where the shortest spring ends? Do you remove the factory clamps and put on bolt on clamps in their place? I have 2 more races this year so even if I get the mono leafs, I know I won't get them on till after them. Any one else that has any ideas, I'm all ears. Thanks for the responses already. Mike
[This message has been edited by 1966GT350 (edited 10-04-2004).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-04-2004 12:05 PM
3 in the front and 3 in the rear.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 01:42 PM
I've always wondered what the difference is between the lower and upper mounting hole. Which postition puts the most torque on the rear wheels? I have them on pickup right now and I have mine set on the two bottom holes. Any help would be great.
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mainer
Gearhead Posts: 168
From: Bryant Pond, Maine
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 10-04-2004 03:37 PM
Goes to show there's never a dumb question. Thanks 1966GT350 for asking as I was going to put one clamp on each side. Alex if I'm understanding correctly the clamps go at the end of each row of springs? and that keeps them from sliding and separating?Great people on this site. thanks,
don
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-04-2004 04:00 PM
Don,You basically want to turn your multi-leaf springs into mono leafs. Clamp the end of each leaf to the main leaf. f100, The lower hole moves the instant center farther forward than the top hole. The top hole will hit the tires quicker and lift the rear more than the front of the car. Generally lower powered car use the top hole, harder launching cars use the bottom hole. Good luck, SteveW
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 04:47 PM
Steve, thanks for the quick reply. What holes would you recommend for my application? I'm running 450 or so fwhp and a 3800 stall. I foot brake it right now. I haven't found the perfect launching rpm yet. But what makes my application a little more different is it being in a truck and not a car. What would you recommend for an air gap on the toggle? Thanks
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-04-2004 05:30 PM
I'm thinking the lower hole with its forward I/C would work better in a nose heavy pickup. Do you have at least 5" of upward suspension travel? Is the front end loose? Add a bunch of ballast weight to the back of the bed.  SteveW
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 06:07 PM
not to add any confusion but the spring clamps i put on seemed to have no affect on my cars launch, but then again i dont run an automatic. i tried the lower hole on my caltracs and blew the tires off thru 1st and 2nd gear. my caltracs want no preload. im going to try a softer shock setting this weekend see how that goes but its walking a tightrope to get a stick car to hook and 60ft well. you really have to wind it up and not over power the tires when it hits. i think in my case stiffening the back end just doesnt work. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.55 (1/8 mile) at 92mph with 1.64 60ft. time.
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 2005
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-04-2004 07:45 PM
how low of a 60 should you expect with caltracs? i thought low 1.6's would be kinda the norm[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 10-04-2004).]
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 08:35 PM
Steve, I have maybe an inch of upward suspension travel. I have lowered springs on the back plus my front leaf spring mount has been relocated higher to drop the body down more. The front is pretty stiff, the I-beams are just touching the rubber snubbers as it sits. What is the best front shock to have? I haven't got my rear RS9000's yet, but I'm gonna get them. I was thinking about adding some weight to the back corners of the box to try to get it to hook a little more. I'm wonder about the Caltracs cuz I haven't heard them clack yet, thats even with a very little amount an airgap. Do I have something set up wrong?
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-04-2004 09:04 PM
Get rid of the lowered front springs and get 5+ inches of easy front suspension travel. You need to shift the weight to the rear tires. Otherwise, it'll leave like a stone no matter where you set the cal-tracs.SteveW
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chip67
Gearhead Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 09:10 PM
dubz, depends on your vehicle and how much power youre making. i honestly think i should expect to get into the 1.5's if i get it set up right and the track is good. ive been 1.63 alreadyand i know my chasis isnt perfect yet. man so much of this drag racing is chasis and i still have a lot to learn. look at these stock eliminator cars. i raced one last week and almost everything he beat me by at the top end he got in the first 60ft when he launched with the front end about 5 ft. in the air. ------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.55 (1/8 mile) at 92mph with 1.64 60ft. time.
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 09:15 PM
Steve, where do I go about getting front coils that allow my front to rise? I would like to keep the ride height where it is. The front coils are 1" drop with one set of coil compressors to get it down to that level. By 5" of upward travel, do you mean the front or rear? I'm guessing the front, but not totally sure. My front will hang when jacked up by the frame or on a hoist.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-04-2004 10:27 PM
You need small dia. coils and more of them to get some stored energy. Ask Moroso, they may have some that will work. Also 90-10 front shocks will help a bunch. The front end is as important as the rear suspension. SteveW
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mizry
Journeyman Posts: 97
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-04-2004 11:10 PM
go with moroso chevyII front springs or stock 65/66 V8 front springs. drill and drain the lakewoods or get a set of carrera 90-10's. add weight to the rear of the car, maybe an extra battery or lead weight. ride height close to level front to back at rest to start with. Make sure the front suspension isnt binding and has free movement. ------------------
65 fastback
66 coupe
99 gt
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f100cleveland
Gearhead Posts: 505
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-05-2004 01:07 PM
Would you use those car front coils even in a pickup? I called Moroso and they wouldn't tell me any info. They said they didn't know if anything would fit and couldn't guarantee anything. I'd like to run a softer spring on the front but I dont want get one that doesn't work.
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1966GT350
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: New Jersey
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-09-2004 11:12 AM
Finally got some clamps and some time to put them on. In looking at the springs, each leaf has separated about an 1/8 inch from the one above it about 2-3 inches from it's end, even on the ones that were clamped from the factory. I tried to C clamp them together and put on the new spring clamps, but on some I couldn't get them to stay completely together. Is this typical, or is it just time for new springs?Also, can 67mustangdsa, or anyone, explain to me why the shelby drop on the front end is hurting the way the car hooks?
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mizry
Journeyman Posts: 97
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-09-2004 03:57 PM
If your springs have seperated with weight on them then its time for new springs. Weak springs will cause uncontrolled movement.And the A-arm drop isnt a problem.You need a coil spring to support the weight of the car and bring it back up to stock ride height. You front shocks have alot to do with weight transfer, lakewoods are too stiff on a 65/66.
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1966GT350
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: New Jersey
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-12-2004 01:47 PM
90/10 are too stiff? Or lakewood's in general?Had the car out this week, clamping the springs and moving the shocks to 5 got me down from a 1.72 to a 1.66 60ft (and I went from 12lbs to 18lbs in the ET Streets), but the track prep was a lot better this week then last because they were running a quick 8 race this week. Still think I will go with a mono leaf from Calvert because the 4 leafs are still separated and bent into that position. Still wondering if anyone has ever used a shackle eliminator like the one MGP heads sells?
[This message has been edited by 1966GT350 (edited 10-12-2004).]
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mizry
Journeyman Posts: 97
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-13-2004 01:34 AM
calvert has atleast three different rear springs for the mustang. And while your getting the springs ask him about a good set of front shocks. the carrera's I got from him are a huge improvement over the lakewoods. Almost no resitance to extension but a lot of resistance on compression, much quicker responce out the hole.
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1966GT350
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: New Jersey
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 10-25-2004 10:14 PM
I know this is a old post but I figured I'd put it here rather than start a new one. The video in this link is from Fords at Englishtown on October 17. My car is right at the 3 minute mark right after the green notchback. It was a good race with a lot of east coast guns. This is the first time I've see my car up in a video not of my own making, so I thought I'd post it here and see what you guys thought of how the car leaves. 60 ft's were about 1.70 with a 15-25 mph head wind.Enjoy. 56k probably will take a while. http://www.muscularmustangs.com/downloads/fordsatetown04vid.wmv [This message has been edited by 1966GT350 (edited 10-25-2004).]
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