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Author
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Topic: Well, got it running again, next problem!
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-07-2004 06:22 PM
   
Turns out that my 302 did blow both head gaskets. So I went to victor rentz racing gaskets, and arp bolts. Problem solved.  I drove it about 20 miles and then a new problem arouse. All the sudden it cut out and the tach went to zero.  Well being a manual, the motor was still spinning, so I just about get stopped, and walla, it takes off again. It did this about 10-15 times on my 5 mile journey to my house. I did make it back though. Scared the **** out of me at first because I had just run it to 6,000 rpm in 1st, 5,500 in second, and 4,000 in 3rd and it did it about 3 seconds after I shifted into 4th. At first I thought it blew up, but not the case, as it has the same oil pressure as always and runs great until the ignition cuts out. I have a pertonix 2 coil and a ignitor 2 module in a stock distributor. I'm thinking one of the two is taking a ****? 
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1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 44935
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-07-2004 07:01 PM
Yup, it kind of sounds like a Petronix doing what a Petronix does.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 1008
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-07-2004 08:03 PM
that seems to be a common problem with the pertronix. a few of the guys here had that problem.------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 07-07-2004 10:32 PM
Um, since ya had the engine apart did ya remove any ground wires, like to the back of the head?  Also did you run the battery down to the point of needing a charger? Thoese electronic parts don't like battery chargers, 14 plus volts will take 'em down pretty fast. For the heck of it double check your connections to the solonoid, small wires. Are they tight and clean? Also don't rule out a bad ignition switch. Sorry to hear of additional problems 
Take care! Les ------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-07-2004 11:25 PM
Well, I didn't disconnect any grounds, because I have non on the head, just the block, but I checked all my connections and they are all good. Checked for pinched wires and everything checks out. If it was the switch it would have shut the radio and the gauges off, and it didn't, so I know that isn't the problem either. I've already had the pertonix coil replaced once because it was leaking oil out of the terminal. So it has to be the ignitor or the coil, but I'm guessing the ignitor. The battery never got drained that far, and I didn't put a charger on it. Only thing that I have done is put a different set of head gaskets in it.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-08-2004 12:05 AM
Check for short circuits as well. I had a short in my steering wheel of all places! When I turned the wheel real tight, the car would cut off! I thought the MSD box was going out at first. Weird...But, your problem definitely sounds ignition related. Seeing you are using the Pertronix, that would be the first thing to check. (especially if it's the original Pertronix, and not the newer optical unit) Oh yea, electronic ignitions require more battery power to operate than points. If your battery is crap, the ignition might not work. If my battery is low, sometimes the starter will crank, but the MSD 6AL won't fire. The newer digital systems aren't as bad about this. They are much more consistent and reliable. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 01:42 AM
Thanks for you help guys. I don't think that it's the ignition switch, because then it should cut out the radio and everything. I don't think it's the coil, because I've never heard of one doing that before, and I checked all wiring. Also I don't think that it's grounding anywhere because it acts just like my truck did, and the ignition module fixed that. I was to depressed to look at it today. It ran fine to get it from the garage to the house to wash the antifreeze off the fenders because of the previous blown head gaskets, and it ran good going back in, but other than that I don't care right now. Maybe I'll look at it tomorrow. Also when it would fire again it has a light miss when you step on the throttle and surges a little. So I'm guessing it's the pertonix, especially with the bad rep they have. Wierd thing is my dad has been using them in tractors for years now, and said he's never had a problem.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 1008
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 09:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by BLstangin:
So I'm guessing it's the pertonix, especially with the bad rep they have. Wierd thing is my dad has been using them in tractors for years now, and said he's never had a problem.[/B]
yep, in my area there have been a few GOOD arguements about the pertronix. it seems as if every 3rd pertronix is going bad. some guys love em others HATE em. same with the mallory unilites. i have 1 that i once needed to replace the module in it, i know a few rodders that will NEVER ever use a unilite. MSD is the best per results/experiences of the rodders/racers here.
stick with it,you`ll fix it & be roaring down the road again! ------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
it`s nice to be important but more IMPORTANT to be nice.
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2690
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 10:53 AM
I had the same problem, I had a pertronix 2 and a pertronix 1 module go bad. the pertronix 2 unit did a similar thing to yours only it never came back for me, just quit and never would start again (I got good at switching back to points - in the dark with traffic whizzing by). the tach shows zero (at least in my case) because its not getting any signal from the coil anymore and so thats the indication that your ignition module is going bad and not triggering.You can either keep driving on it (but make sure you keep your points with you at all times including the tools to switch them back in) or buy a different system. The Crane XRi that I bought has been fine, but I did have some installation problems. My next ignition will be a complete distributor swap. I know lots of people who think Pertronix are great but those are folks that have not had to stand around in the cold/heat/wind/rain changing back to points because their module took a dump. Im sure Pertronix are trying to rectify their problems but I know too many examples of module failure to recommend them to anyone. Initially I wondered if heat was getting to the module, but my engine doesnt get that hot, and these things need to be built for the environment they run in. GMs HEI system suffered from heat, so its possible, but not really a valid excuse unless your engine is burning up ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 12:09 PM
Hey Indy, what problems did you have installing the crane, Also how long have you had it, and does the rev limiter work. Would you recommend it to me? I'm thinking of buying one. Anyone else have any experience with the crane?------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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senzstang
Gearhead Posts: 305
From: perry, oh, usa
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 01:15 PM
I used the crane unit for about 6 months. When I first put it in, it ran great and only took about 15 minutes to install. Then on day 2 it was running great and then just quit running. There tech line helped me and I took out and then re-installed the ground wire. Fired up and ran like a champ. Then this spring I was cruising at a steady 40 mph and it started misfiring like crazy. It would idle like a champ but as soon as RPM's went up it would misfire. Took the Crane out, put the points in and it purrs like a kitten again.
It is sitting on my shelf now.
I am going to bite the bullet someday and get a MSD ready to run unit. Phil
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 2690
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 07-09-2004 01:54 PM
The problem I had involves the different breaker plate mechanism they have for the crane module. they require (unlike pertronix) that you remove the factory plates and install their plates. the top one is supposed to swivel on a plastic bushing, but my plastic bushing appeared to be undersized allowing an undue amount of free play in the top plate. hence I could not get the module "gapped" correctly to the mag trigger. The tech line guy couldnt understand what I was talking about and asked me to send it back. Rather than pay for shipping and risk a repeat performance I had a friend machine a new bushing from barstock that fits perfectly and its been trouble free motoring ever since.That was about a year ago. The rev limiter is set at about 6 grand and I dont think ive ever reached that with my stock 289 while driving. I think I played with the limiter when I got it and it seemed to work fine. I am with Phil (senzstang) that a pro billet is the way to go when money allows. He is the first guy I know to have failed a crane unit - I hope mine holds out. Frankly I think its a tough job that these "under the cap" modules have. Once the engine is hot the module is subjected to a lot of heat and vibration. The big MSD modules (although they work differently) get mounted away from the engine and have big aluminum fins on them - thats the best place for electronics in my opinion. ------------------
'68 coupe, '66 289 C code
engine, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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