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Author Topic:   Rear gears & vibration
coupe3w
Journeyman

Posts: 57
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 06-01-2004 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coupe3w   Click Here to Email coupe3w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do any of you find that you get a vibration when you change rear gears in your cars? I have a '67 with 4:30 gears and I have a vibration in 5th (T-5) gear at around 2300 RPM. It gets better the in higher RPM in 5th and goes completly away at around 3200 RPM.
Driving in the city I don't feel the vibration in 1st through 4th gears. I measured my pinion angle yesterday and I have only 1/2 degree downward pinion angle. Could this be my problem? Does an aluminum driveshaft help at all?

Thanks
Coupe3w

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73torinoqcode
Gearhead

Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 06-01-2004 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 73torinoqcode   Click Here to Email 73torinoqcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alumimun drive shaft should solve the problem. If not take yours to get balanced. I had the same problem after installing 3.73s in my 92 5.0. It only happened at 70 mph or higher.

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 621
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-01-2004 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The reason that you get vibration when changing gears is that the drive shaft spins much faster with your new gears. When you had the stock gears it was unlikely it ever spun fast enough for the shaft to hit it's resonant Hz. The vibes were there but you couldn't feel them. With the new gears the shaft spins fast enough to hit the Resonant Hz and causes a standing wave in the shaft (which you feel). As your speed increases the standing wave dissapears. I think you are in a second order standing wave. If you were to spin it faster yet you could hit a third order standing wave which year would REALLY feel, but that's unlikely.

Anyway, the fix is to eliminate the vibration. Your correct pinion angle is dependant on the angle of the tailshaft of the trans. Say you trans points down 4* your pinion should point up 4* (theoretically). But with a leaf spring rear you must compensate for spring wrap by appx 2*. So you would be closer to 2* up on the pinion. So, you have to measure the angle of the tail shaft and go from there.

Does this make sense?

HTH,
B-loose

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-01-2004 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you want to try and balance your drive shaft yourself? If so, I'll post the procedure for the shade tree mechanic's driveshaft balance.
Otherwise take it to a driveline shop and have them check it.

SteveW

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65ponycar
Gearhead

Posts: 755
From: Dayton, OH
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 06-01-2004 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65ponycar   Click Here to Email 65ponycar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bloose you just brought back bad memories of a bad physics class: THERMAL,WAVES,QUANTUM MECHANICS...
I remember that stuff all to well too bad the prof never gave an application such as a driveshaft on the final!

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73torinoqcode
Gearhead

Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 06-01-2004 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 73torinoqcode   Click Here to Email 73torinoqcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will try the Shady Tree Method because I am broke and the FRPP driveshafts went up 100 bucks in the last two weeks, of course when I want to buy one.They went from 149.99 to 249.99.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-01-2004 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK,

I'll post the procedure tomorrow.

SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-02-2004 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here you go,

Road test the car and note the level of vibration and the speed that it is most pronounced.
After the road test support the rear axle with two jackstands and chock the front tires. Remove the rear wheels and drums. (Do not apply brakes with the drums off) Mark the wheels and drums before removal to assure reassembly in the same positions. Run the car to the same vibration speed as the road test. If the vibration is still there it is probably an untrue or out of balance driveshaft. If the vibration disappeared have the rear wheels spin balanced on the car.

1- A car is normally more sensitive to driveshaft unbalance at the rear of the shaft. Mark the circumference of the shaft approx. 6" forward of the rear weld in 4 equal parts. Number the marks 1-2-3-4 around the shaft.
2- Install one Whittek type hose clamp around the driveshaft tube with the screw of the clamp at mark number 1. Test run the drive shaft in the vibration speed range. Note any changes in the initial vibration, better - worse.
3- Move the hose clamp screw to mark number 2 and re-evaluate the vibration and note any
changes, better - worse.
4- Repeat step 3 with the clamp?s screw at positions number 3 and 4.
(Note: If no difference is noted with the clamp added in each of the 4 positions the problem may not be driveshaft unbalance.)
5- Set the hose clamp?s screw to the best position, opposite of the worst position. If two adjacent positions were equally good, place the clamp?s screw between the two positions and re-test.
6- If unbalance is still present with one clamp in the best position install one more hose clamp with the screw in the best position and re-test.
7- If unbalance still exists, the combined weight of the two clamps may be excessive. To reduce this excess weight, rotate the two clamps screw away from each other approx. ?"each an equal distance from the mark. Re-test
8- Continue to rotate the clamps apart until the balance is best.
Note: slight vibration felt in the car on jackstands may not show up in a road test which is, after all, the final determining factor.
9- Install drums, and rear wheels.
10- Road test the vehicle.
11- If still unacceptable, mark the front of the shaft at 4 positions and repeat steps 1 through 10.

Good luck,

SteveW

p.s. That was plagiarized from the Mopar Chassis book.

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71Mach1
Gearhead

Posts: 210
From: new jersey
Registered: Aug 99

posted 06-02-2004 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 71Mach1   Click Here to Email 71Mach1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Simplest is to disconect at the rear end and
rotate 180 degrees and re-connect. May get
better or worse.

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73torinoqcode
Gearhead

Posts: 361
From: Buffalo,NY,USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 06-02-2004 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 73torinoqcode   Click Here to Email 73torinoqcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks I guess Mopars are good for something LOL. I get the vibration at about 73 through 75 and then it goes away. It will come and go at speeds higher also.

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coupe3w
Journeyman

Posts: 57
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 06-04-2004 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for coupe3w   Click Here to Email coupe3w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found the front u-joint to have play in it. Also I think my pinion angle is off. I have 7* at the trans and 2 1/2* downward at the pinion. The driveshaft is fairly new with only about 3000 miles on it. I don't think the front u-joint should be gone yet unless the pinion angle is causing premature wear. Thoughts?

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-04-2004 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you check it this way?

http://www.rosslertrans.com/tips/pinon.htm

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 621
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-05-2004 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perfect link! This is just what I was trying to explain.

The DS angle may be your problem with wearing out the joint. The front joint would be at a 9.5* angle which is a bit much I think. If the trans is 7* down the pinion should be about 4* up. This will reduce you u-joint angles too and help with u-joint wear. What u-joints are you using? I would try playing with you pinion angle and see if the problem gets better.

B-loose

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coupe3w
Journeyman

Posts: 57
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 06-09-2004 07:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coupe3w   Click Here to Email coupe3w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well guys this is what I have. I measured the angles again and I have trans @5 1/2* down and Pinion @ 2* down. I also checked the angle of the driveshaft at the pinion end (rear) and it is at 2 1/2* up. This is in a '67 Mustang with leaf springs so what should I be doing to correct this.

Thanks

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 621
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-09-2004 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it were me I'd put 4* of shim in there to get the pinion to 2* up and see how that works. Anyone else have any other suggestions?

B-loose

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coupe3w
Journeyman

Posts: 57
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 07-12-2004 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coupe3w   Click Here to Email coupe3w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Update. Well guys I installed the pinion wedge 6 degrees and changed my drivetrain angle to 4 degrees. I installed a new aluminum drive shaft from Denny's Driveshaft. Replaced the tailshaft bushing in the trany. Most of the vibration is now gone. I still have some but it is much, much better. I think I have to much back lash in the rear gears so I will be looking into this next.
Thanks for your help on this one guys.

coupe3w

[This message has been edited by coupe3w (edited 07-12-2004).]

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