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Author
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Topic: 7000 RPM or more with Ford roller lifters.
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 826
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 05-18-2004 04:38 PM
   
A short while ago on a roller verses flat tappet cam thread several people expressed doubts that the stock rollers will go to 7k. In this months Race Pages, the monthly paper of the NMRA, they have an article about how it is done. Method number one (the one I was planned on trying) is to run a lot of spring pressure to cause the hydraulic lifter to collapse due to spring pressure. Then use a pushrod that holds the lifter cup .020" from the bottom of it's travel. You then have a hydraulic lifter with a total travel of .020" without modifiying the lifter. The second method is to use the Comp Cams beehive springs with the lightest valve and retainer you can get. I haven't tried either yet but I plan on using method 1.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-18-2004 05:00 PM
Very hard on the cam and lifters John.
Stock clips generally will not withstand over 150 lbs of seat pressure.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1278
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-18-2004 05:21 PM
I will use beehives in my current build.
There is a updated version of the beehives every couple of months.
In fact a friend had turned a hyd flat tappet (normal lifters) 302 to 7200 with beehives and titanium retainers/keepers.
I think the springs are marketed for LS-1 chebbys by Comp.
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 05-18-2004 09:53 PM
talk to anderson ford motorsports. hydraulic rollers will go upstairs without all the "tricks".------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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Capri
Gearhead Posts: 1368
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-19-2004 12:38 PM
Thats not exactly true. I know what lifters they use and who they purchase them through. To my knowledge, I have not seen ANY stock unmodified hydraulic roller lifter that can go over 7000 RPM for a prolonged period of time without collapsing. Especially using lightweight synthetic oils. I know Crane has those style springs also. I just dont know if they have more than 1 spring rate/height as of yet. Tony
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1278
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-19-2004 01:17 PM
Crane is working on a spring with oval wire Vs. the "Beehive" spring.
The beehive spring is designed to coil bibd as it compresses. This makes some knock sensors think that the engine is in detonation and the ECU takes timing out.
This is why some Chevy LS-1 guys have trouble with teh beehive springs.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 05-21-2004 02:04 AM
7000 on normal hydraulics isn't too hard, on the hydraulic rollers it is. They are very heavy and you can't just up the spring pressure without problems. Tony, not racing at Joilet this weekend?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-21-2004 10:10 AM
No Tomp.
No SS contested so we elected not to support a race by a sanctioning body that does not support us.
It's a shame as Joliet is only 35 miles from out home.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 826
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 05-21-2004 10:53 AM
The article said the high spring pressure will cause frequent lifter replacement. I guess I will go the light weight rout. I don't have to deal with it until next year, I am not going to have the car done til then. In the meantime I have a lot of old parts that I can put together a slow SS/K(A) with if I can come up with some sort of transmission. Then at least I can start sorting out the suspension.John
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 05-21-2004 10:03 PM
the 7k plus, actually 8k on hyd. rollers is a promise rick anderson makes with his cams and the right parts in the valve train. im sure he'd say you have to run titanium pieces or lightweight valves at some point. i know i run one of his mildest high rpm grinds and take mine close to 7k on every shift without a problem. im still running a heavy valvetrain, the valves afr uses are about the heaviest that come in aftermarket aluminum heads, i got steel retainers too and comp magnum rockers. i can tell you my springs are pretty stiff for a street car. i think close to 200 at the seat and 400 over the nose...i could be off a little, hard to remember the exact numbers. it tweaked the crap out of my spring compressor putting them in.------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 05-22-2004 12:42 AM
AlexNot having Stock or SS at some events really sucks. I see they gave Stockers 5 qualifying sessions... still don't think that makes up for it.
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