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Author
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Topic: Cleveland wont idle
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'69PonyRider
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Hawthorne, CA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 05-15-2004 10:59 AM
   
We fired up the cleveland finally last night, open headers, and its LOUD! but anyways we couldnt seem to get the motor to idle under 1200. The cam is a 305H in a 351C 4V. How low can this cam go and still be running? Before we could even get it started long enough, we tried my friends 700cfm holley DP, as opposed to my 800. It never fired up AT ALL with the 700. maybe like one slight stumble and thats all. once we got the 800 back on, we turned up the idle screw way up and the lowest it went was 1200 before it stumbled too much. why wouldnt it fire with the 700? i know this motor needs carb but to this extent? Also after we turn off the motor each time, there is white smoke coming out the carb, why is that? thanks
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Scott (69Mach)
Gearhead Posts: 734
From: Walnut Creek, CA USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 05-15-2004 12:11 PM
Not to be insulting, but did you check the timing?
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 05-16-2004 12:05 AM
Quote: white smoke coming out the carb:From what I seen it sometimes happens when the float bowl is a little high and when the engine is shut off some fuel leaks in the bore and is vaporized from engine heat. I feel 300 cam is pretty large. I'd agree with timing but maybe tight lifter adjustment? The 700 may have had some internal problems. Have you checked your fuel pressure? Could you expand more on the stumble? My ideas,
Les ------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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'69PonyRider
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Hawthorne, CA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 05-16-2004 05:48 PM
what do you mean by tight lifter adjustment?
we played with the timing a bit before anything, it fires up nice and easy so i dont think thats it. the fuel pressure i havent checked but i was already gonna pick up a gauge, because of the regulator. the 700 fires up great on my friends 302, thats why i dont understand. the stumble feels like a vacuum leak (ive had to fix one before) but ive checked any open ports and there are none. what rpm should this cam idle at?
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 587
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 05-16-2004 10:55 PM
Did you try to choke the carb down and see if it smooths out or the idle goes up? White smoke is excess fuel vaporied in the manifold. With the excess fuel it could also be late timing. How much compression does the motor have 10.5A? 11 to 1? That much cam should have alot of compression. ------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS Crate engine RPM Air Gap 600 Holley Dynomax ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch conversion Flowmasters X Pipe 3.89 equa loc 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage wheel works 16x8 40 series 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 13.39 on 205/70/14 BFG @104 mph (New times when better weather gets here)!
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67coupe
Gearhead Posts: 488
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-16-2004 11:34 PM
I had the same cam in my car at one time and the best i ever got it to idle in neutral was bout 1100 with a 750 dp car ran great with approx 10.5 compression in gear it would run around 950 with a 3000 stall convt------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c (currently broke:( )
8.41 in the 1/8
1.90 60'
at 82.03 mph
94 Explorer
30 model A currently rustbucket
in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5(now mostly complete and on the road legally)
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 05-16-2004 11:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by '69PonyRider:
what do you mean by tight lifter adjustment?
we played with the timing a bit before anything, it fires up nice and easy so i dont think thats it. the fuel pressure i havent checked but i was already gonna pick up a gauge, because of the regulator. the 700 fires up great on my friends 302, thats why i dont understand. the stumble feels like a vacuum leak (ive had to fix one before) but ive checked any open ports and there are none. what rpm should this cam idle at?
I just felt if the lifter were adjusted tight you increase the cam overlap and hold the valves open longer, hence a vac leak of sorts. Maybe back 'em off a little and see if that improves your problem.
Just an idea. Les
------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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'69PonyRider
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Hawthorne, CA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 05-18-2004 01:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by wildfire466:
I just felt if the lifter were adjusted tight you increase the cam overlap and hold the valves open longer, hence a vac leak of sorts. Maybe back 'em off a little and see if that improves your problem.Just an idea. Les
do you mean rockers? i dont have adjustable rockers. this motor is running 10.5 comp, 3500 stall. i havent had a chance to check anything as i have been in the hospital for the past two days(nearly severed my finger with a hammer)lol. im ok except that im depressed for not being able to wrench. im also runing a holley blue pump, with a regulator any ideas on that? thanks Aldo
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Greg Pettit
Gearhead Posts: 107
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 05-18-2004 10:06 AM
Seems to me that a 305H is way too big to run without an adjustable valvetrain.I tried it with a 292H in a 351C and ran into problems. That said, the idle rpm and vacuum don't look too out of line. Timing and carb setup might help a little, but that 305H is a BIG cam. Greg ------------------
'71 Torino GT 466, Edelbrock CJ RPM heads, 11.15:1, 250/262 solid flat tappet, .614/.640 lift, 850 DP, C6 w/3500 stall
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ukracer
Gearhead Posts: 151
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 05-18-2004 11:19 AM
Seen this loads of times. Big cam kills low speed vacuum, not enough fuel pulled from the carb. Try this: with the engine running, stick your finger tips over the two OUTER brass bleeds in the primary throats. This blocks the air flow and makes the fuel flow easier in the idle circuit. I often used wire to block these holes partially on engines that would not idle with a big cam. Once you have ths part sorted (wire in the holes) you can then dial in the idle mixture on the screws as normal. Forget the old 'one and a half turns' nonsense, get it hot and adjust to best idle. Good luck,
Cheers, Martin
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'69PonyRider
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Hawthorne, CA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 05-24-2004 09:30 AM
hey guys, were still trying to get this thing to idle, heres where im at:we blocked the power valve because the other one was opening at idle. but when we put the met. block back on, we kinda forgot to put the jets back on, it had 75's. and it ran! it stumbled at 2300 but i drove it around the block thinking i only needed a power valve. vacuum is at 6.5~7 at idle. it wont run nearly as good with 99's. Another symptom is that the carb seems to be leaking from the venturi, where the fuel gets atomized, its just dripping at idle. the float level is good. Bad needle? If I cover the entire primary venturi with my hand the idle goes up about 600 rpms. is that normal? the white smoke coming from the carb is still present, never left. timing is at 17*. it has an 800DP with a proform baseplate. I need to fix this soon so i can drive it to the muffler shop. the cops came at 8:00 pm last night to tell me it was too loud and too many people were calling them. LOL
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 05-25-2004 12:57 AM
Um, too large of a cam for Idle? Since that was addressed, here is a Holley link http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSC/FMSC.htmlLook it over. And yes fuel pressure or dirty seat (non hi performance) is over coming your needle and seat causing the primary downleg to drip. I'd look over your install of cam as the need for more initial timing may indicate a retarded cam. Just my 2 for the night! Les ------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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