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Author
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Topic: Hardened cam thrust plate or no?
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 802
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 05-10-2004 05:15 PM
   
I am going to be running a hydro roller cam made from 8620 billet steel. It is custom ground by Mark at mmeracing. He claims that I can use the early thrust plate, but in the latest car craft a guy wrote in stating that if running a roller cam in a 302 you need the later hardened thrust plate or the cam will chew it up, Mark says untrue, so which is it? I'm trying to get the cam in tonight so any help is great, I have one of each.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, Comp cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43791
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 05-10-2004 05:19 PM
The factory wouldn't use them if they didn't need them. Hell, those guys will eliminate a nylon spacer if it will save them 0.000000000000000000002 cents per car.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-10-2004 07:14 PM
I've had trouble with timing chain gears chewing up the early model camshaft thrust plates. To help combat this, I drill a small hole through the groove where the oil hole is to help oil the timing chain side of the thrust plate. It seems to help.Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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matt d
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: Coventry, CT USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-10-2004 08:55 PM
I read the same article about 12 hours after I installed the timing chain cover, balancer and oil pan on my brand new 351W rebuild using a solid roller cam with my original early-type thrust plate. Damn!! Mine is not a billet steel though, it is the iron type used for the Comp Cams XE Street rollers.I don't know what to believe either. I did lots of research before I put this cam in and this is the first hint I ever heard of the hardened thrust plate. Maybe it is not too serious of a problem? Hopefully the iron solid rollers don't need the hardened plate, but I think it is the same material as most hydraulic rollers, so who knows. One last point to ponder, when I was searching the internet about this hardened plate, I notice that the Ford Racing 9-keyway billet timing set "requires" the hardened thrust plate. ------------------
66 coupe with: 351W, Comp Cams XE262H cam, Trickflow heads, Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 600 carb, Ford roller rockers, Hooker Super Comps, Dr. Gas X-pipe with 2-chamber delta flows, Tremec TKO, 9" rear w/ 3.70s and a True-Trac limited slip Adding now: XE274R solid roller, Fox Lake ported TW heads, Carb Shop 750 DP
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BLstangin
Gearhead Posts: 802
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 05-10-2004 10:19 PM
Ya, I'm running a cloyes street true roller chain with a cast gear, but it's the cam I'm worried about, it's the same material used in a solid roller, because it just plain doesn't wear out, but it can chew up the plate according to the car craft article, but mark says not to worry about it. So I don't know either.------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 600 holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, Comp cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 2.79 open 8" rear. Soon to be 9" 3.50 trac-lok
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 692
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 05-11-2004 12:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by matt d:
One last point to ponder, when I was searching the internet about this hardened plate, I notice that the Ford Racing 9-keyway billet timing set "requires" the hardened thrust plate.
What the heck. I didn't know that!!! When I put my cam in I used the Ford 9 way adjustable chain but used the same thrust plate I had originally. This sucks! Do I need to change that out now or what? I should have stayed with the Summit chain! B-loose
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matt d
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: Coventry, CT USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-11-2004 11:54 AM
From what I have read that last couple of days doing searches on this thrust plate, you can get a good deal of wear from using the billet gear with an early thrust plate.Does anyone have real world experience of thrust plate wear from the cam side? I think billet solid rollers have been around longer than the hardened thust plates right? Any real world experience would be greatly appreciated. Does the distibutor gear load a roller cam towards the rear of the engine so the cam material doesn't even matter? -Matt
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 692
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 05-11-2004 11:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by matt d:
From what I have read that last couple of days doing searches on this thrust plate, you can get a good deal of wear from using the billet gear with an early thrust plate.Does anyone have real world experience of thrust plate wear from the cam side? I think billet solid rollers have been around longer than the hardened thust plates right? Any real world experience would be greatly appreciated. Does the distibutor gear load a roller cam towards the rear of the engine so the cam material doesn't even matter? -Matt
Sorry Matt no real world experience, though I will be getting a look at an iron thrust plate and a steel gear but with only about 1 hr of run time. But I think your thinking is right about the cam being loaded to the rear. I would think if there were going to be problems with a steel cam and cast plate it would be spelled out specifically when you bought the cam or the cam plate. The Motorsport Iron geared timming chain with cam plate makes no mention of not being compatable with a steel roller cam. I could be wrong though. JMO,
B-loose
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matt d
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: Coventry, CT USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-13-2004 12:24 PM
Anyone here ever wear out the cam side of a thrust plate?
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-13-2004 04:21 PM
I use the 9 position timing gear.Mine always look brand new and unused on the cam side. The timing gear side is the one that always wears on my engines... even with a small oil hole drilled. (the oil hole does help though) Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 850
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 05-13-2004 04:27 PM
When I started running billet rollers I was having a problem with the cam wearing on the plate. I wish I remembered how I fixed it because I am about to go back there again.Oh well it wasn't that hard to fix the first time so I guess I will come up with something this time also. Nothing more frustrating than having the answer and not being able to remember it. John
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matt d
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: Coventry, CT USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 05-13-2004 08:39 PM
n2oMike-Was that with a flat tappet cam or roller?
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-13-2004 10:31 PM
flat------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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