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Author
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Topic: Timing by ear
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-04-2004 03:21 PM
   
Could someone walk me through setting my timing by ear? Just got my car back and Id like to drive it but It is having some detonation issues. Its a warmed up 429 Id like to get in the ballpark and see where its at.
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mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 774
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 04-04-2004 10:11 PM
Basically I would just advance it until it pings at WOT and then back it up a little until it stops.You can probably get it pretty close just by listening to the engine when you turn the distributor back and forth.As you go too far in either direction the engine will start to labour and idle rough.Also the engine should start up easily and not fight against the starter(too much advance).If its pinging under light engine loads you may have too much vacuum advance.Make sure your running good high octane fuel that will fit the needs of your compression ratio.My 429 thunderjet was sensitive to what carb I was running.If it was a little lean it would ping like crazy.These big blocks like their fuel  ------------------
1968 mustang j-code sprint.13.69@101 306cu.in, stock ported heads,weiand exellerator,650 holley DP,hedman hedders,comp 292 Magnum cam,4-speed,8 inch 4.11 detroit locker http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html [This message has been edited by mustangboy (edited 04-04-2004).] [This message has been edited by mustangboy (edited 04-04-2004).]
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 04-05-2004 12:12 AM
Re:70bbstangWhere did you get the car back from? Any repairs? What distributor do you have?
What Carb do you have installed?
Are you running PWR Brakes?
What Thremostat (160, 180, 195)?
Have you changed any of the engine pulleys?
What Plugs, Platimum? Heat range or #? Sorry if I'm asking too much, but info is needed to help. Detonation isn't easy on parts and can be "Somewhat slient" too. Les ------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-05-2004 10:59 PM
Well my buddies at the 385 forum have informed me that my new combo is probably close to 11 to 1 compression GAH! that was not what I had in mind  the engine builder isnt at fault I told him to put the same stuff back in but the new pistions etc I guess the old motor had lost some compression and wasnt pinging(although it was probably close) Now all freshened up PING! so they told me to get it colder and get rid of the 750 edel I have on it because they are a bit lean at midrange for at least a starting point.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-06-2004 12:37 AM
750 Edelbrock? (puke)------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-06-2004 09:15 PM
I know alex but im currently out of cash any suggestions to get rid of the pinging in my new motor ???
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-06-2004 09:58 PM
Keep the engine cool.
Retard the timing.
Slow the advance curve.
Richen up the a/f ratio.
Run higher octane fuel.Two or more of the above will take care of it. SteveW
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 04-06-2004 10:01 PM
RE: 70bbstangWould you mind telling some info on block and heads? What pistons? 22cc dish? C8, D2, DOVE, D3? D2 are known to rattle, I'm sure they told you that. C8 and DOVE have 71cc chambers, I had D3's with 88cc. The valves were not tulip type so instead of the normal 91cc I got 88cc. Alex correct me here: 10 cc = .01 compression. So going from DO to D3 you will lose .02 or um a half of point. The D3's will run just got to port them. I'm also interested on the distributor, is it connected to ported vac? Last idea, is the plate installed behind the water pump? I know dumb question but I figured I'd ask because some leave them out? Les Edit: One more thing, some pistons actually are taller from the top of the ring to the top of the piston where most cheap pistons are less. You allow .012 from front to back. I've read some will be in the hole .030 while the others pistons are .010. All of the pistons came from the same box. .020 can make all the differance in valve clearance. I've have learned to check this. ------------------
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/ [This message has been edited by wildfire466 (edited 04-06-2004).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-06-2004 10:06 PM
10 cc is closer to 1.0 point in compression.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-07-2004 12:22 AM
Its a Dove-a block with ported dove-c heads sealed power flat tops. unfortunatly im not sure if they been milled in the past 30 years I Didnt think id be anywhere near ping as the old rebuild had the same type piston just now the new ones are for 30 over. I have an msd with a dura spark dizz its set at 7 initial the mechanical is 20 ive had it all over trying to get rid of the ping no luck. im going to try the tighter sring in the carb the engine is pulling a lot of vac and maybe its leaning out. as for the plate Im sorry to say I dont know Ill find out if there was one on it to begin with my mechanic would put anything back on that was there origionally exactly what is it for (im the one that sounds stupid).
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wildfire466
unregistered
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posted 04-07-2004 01:13 AM
Re:70bbstangYou can install the wp without the plate if you use enough silicone and a thick gasket. What happens is the pump impeller sits in an open cavity. It won't circulate the water very well. On most reman pumps they don't come with a plate. So it is possible if you didn't remove the plate from the old pump then installing the new one will be missing the plate. Hope ya got it? It's hard to describe. I'm in agreement on the carb, I don't like the ELDE ones. I just got a Holley 800DP off e-bay for $157. Alex if ya read this thanks, wasn't sure if it was .01 or 1.0. Last idea, why not go for one more larger cam? Or one with less overlap. Instead of 114 maybe 112 or 110? You will bleed off compression that way. What is your cam specs? Les
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http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/
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70bbstang
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: redondobeach CA usa
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 04-08-2004 01:20 AM
Its on 112 lobe sep 527 int 544 exh 221 int 224 @50.
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