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Author
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Topic: 351C or 351W ?
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V-8
Gearhead Posts: 323
From: TURKEY/Istanbul
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 03-11-2004 03:16 PM
   
Hi guys;
Which would you prefer,why?ATAY AYDINER...
_________________
ELEANOR
http://www.otospor.com/cowboys/67mustang.htm
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/V-8.html
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ukracer
Gearhead Posts: 166
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 03-11-2004 04:10 PM
Windsor! Lighter, simpler, cheaper, far more readily available (made for longer) and now that the aftermarket head industry has woken up to it, the Cleveland's only real advantage (heads) is gone.
Lots of people will disagree with me but my feet are firmly in the Windsor camp! HTH
Cheers, Martin.
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 805
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-11-2004 04:39 PM
Windsors are the weapons of choice these days, but there's something very cool about a 34 year old motor that with very little work (and stock bottom end) is capable of 500hp!Those 4V 351C heads will still outflow probably 70% of the Windsor heads currently on the market  ------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9489
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-11-2004 08:58 PM
I respect the C guys, but it's 2004 and time to move on. The C is going the way of the flathead, Y block, and followed closely by the FE's. All great engines in their day.  One thing about the C's is that they are capable of making way more horsepower than the block can handle. That's a real strong compliment and I respect the engine completely! They are Bad to the bone. But, with today's heads and the W's superior block it's a no brainer if you're starting from scratch. Get a W and build it. If you've got lots of C parts laying around and some 4v heads then I'd go that route for less money.SteveW
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Hans olsson
Gearhead Posts: 718
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 03-12-2004 01:06 PM
C of course!
Why,you ask.
Because the W was not an option in the 1971 Mustang.
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- 71 Mach 1 Ram-Air
- 351C 4V 285 HP
- F-G/Stock Aut
- Stockers are way cool!
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 920
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-12-2004 10:13 PM
How bout a little of both? SVO block with 2 3/4" main journals (Cleveland size) to make the crank lighter, then top it off with any of the Cleveland style heads (Yates?).  I still like the Cleveland for the smaller mains and the heads. The Cleveland blocks are a little heavier and the oiling sytem isn't as good, but the heads seem to work pretty well. Even the 34 year old ones!
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63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 873
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-13-2004 07:50 PM
> SVO block with 2 3/4" main journals (Cleveland size) to make the crank
> lighter, then top it off with any of the Cleveland style heads (Yates?). That's similar to what's going into the Pantera. A Fontana aluminum block
(a hybrid 351C/351W design), topped off by a set of C302B high port aluminum
heads. 4.1" bore by 3.85" stroke should yield 407 cubic inches but weigh
only a bit over 400 lbs. I'm waiting on the 4340 crank at the moment.
Once it is in hand, we can order the pistons. Dan Jones
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Buster
Gearhead Posts: 1553
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002
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posted 03-13-2004 08:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
That's similar to what's going into the Pantera. A Fontana aluminum block
(a hybrid 351C/351W design), topped off by a set of C302B high port aluminum
heads. 4.1" bore by 3.85" stroke should yield 407 cubic inches but weigh
only a bit over 400 lbs.
Dan Jones
I'm thinking along the same lines. However, I can't afford the aluminum Fontana block, lol YIKES. I'll use the 351W Sportsman block I have with Blue thunder Canted valve heads and a 4.100" stroke crank. I wish I could afford the 351W Dart block that can be bored to 4.185" That with a 3.850" or 4.000" crank would be a really cool setup.
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 873
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-13-2004 09:46 PM
> I'm thinking along the same lines. However, I can't afford the aluminum
> Fontana block, lol YIKES.I got lucky and scored a nice used one for less than an iron Dart or
FRPP block. The budget buster is going to be the independent runner
EFI. I've been helping a guy who is casting the intakes (beautiful
work) so I'm getting the intake at cost but that's just the start.
Four sets of dual throttle bodies are the expensive part, plus the
fuel pump, injectors, computers, wiring harness, sensors, etc. Dan Jones
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Buster
Gearhead Posts: 1553
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002
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posted 03-13-2004 10:34 PM
Daniel did you post pic's of that intake setup before?
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 873
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-13-2004 10:40 PM
I posted some pictures of the forms being made:http://www.bacomatic.org/irefi/irefi.html I've got some later pictures but haven't posted them yet. Kelly's getting ready to go to the foundry soon. Dan Jones
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 920
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-14-2004 10:33 PM
Many of the racers at Eddyville have ex sprint car aluminum 406 Chebbies with heads that have injector ports by the plugs. Them's some trick heads. Do any of the aftermarket Ford heads have those? That would really be trick on a street car. Eddyville is about 35 miles from Knoxville, so there are lots of sprint car parts running around there. ------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 873
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-14-2004 10:54 PM
> Many of the racers at Eddyville have ex sprint car aluminum 406 Chebbies
> with heads that have injector ports by the plugs. Them's some trick heads. Are they injecting directly into the combustion chamber or just above
intake valve? AFAIK, only diesels do direct injection? Spraying on
the backside of the valve is typically an emissions thing. Conventional
wisdom is that injector placement farther up the intake tract is better
for peak power.
> Do any of the aftermarket Ford heads have those? That would really be
> trick on a street car. Not that I'm aware of. Kelly's intake has injector bungs and the
TWM throttle bodies have them as well. If I wanted to, I could run
16 injectors and idle off only the small injectors near the valve. Dan Jones
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 873
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 03-14-2004 11:07 PM
> The C is going the way of the flathead, Y block, and followed closely
> by the FE's.If you think the FE is going the way of the dinosaur, you're mistaken.
Driven largely by the Cobra replica market (but also by nostalgia drag
racers), the FE is booming. Edelbrock, Shelby, and Dove already make
aluminum heads for the FE and Blue Thunder has both a street and a race
FE head in the works. Aftermarket iron and aluminum blocks are also
available, along with 3.98" and 4.25" stroker cranks. Independent
runner EFI ssytems, too. Just about anything you need. Keith Craft has been doing some big inch FE street motors for the Cobra
crowd that make over 700 HP using a hydraulic roller cam. Just what
a 2500 pound street Cobra needs... Dan Jones
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 805
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-15-2004 06:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
>
Are they injecting directly into the combustion chamber or just above
intake valve? AFAIK, only diesels do direct injection? Spraying on
the backside of the valve is typically an emissions thing. Dan Jones
They're called "down-nozzle" injectors. Sprints have been running them for probably close to 10 years now. They inject on the back side of the intake valve. On the outside of the head they go in right by the spark plug. They're illegal in most Sprint classes now
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 03-15-2004 10:44 PM
im in the w-camp on this one. not so much to do with parts availability. the c motor is too heavy for the displacement you get. kinda the same reason i dont know why people would build any hemi with exception of the 426. to be honest, even the 426 is kind of a pig. its a strange reason maybe, but its the weight that kills it for me. by the way, have witnessed first hand what a daily driver 2000 mustang gt with an aod trans and blower did to mint 65 plymouth with a 426 hemi.....smoked it. everybody was like "no way!" i always roll my eyes when i see the commercials. those and the jesse james auto zone ones. kinda feel for the old guys standing by the cleveland, as well as other powerplants. someday when we're old some punk is gonna say "those 5.0's were good back in the day but......" thats when im gonna want to slap the taste out of their mouth. my dad still thinks the quickest thing he ever rode in was a new 66 gta fairlane with a 390....geesh! all his rides in 14 to 15 second stock muscle cars and he gets in my ride which i know will hit 11's and acts like im driving miss daisy. what are we talking about...?------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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