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Author
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Topic: 302 Mexican block-how strong?
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-08-2004 11:24 AM
   
How much better is the Mexican block than the stock blocks? Say compared to the roller block or early production blocks? (like '68 or so) I think I've heard they're similar to the Sportsman block in web strength?Will they typically take a larger over-bore than standard blocks, and is the main webbing heavier? ------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??
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CometGT1974
Gearhead Posts: 372
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-08-2004 02:00 PM
I read somewhere that they're not really that much stronger then a regular block but that the cylinder walls will last longer due to the higher nickle content.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-08-2004 03:22 PM
About 20% stronger overall in my experiance.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-08-2004 03:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
About 20% stronger overall in my experiance.
 How about cylinder wall thickness?
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-08-2004 03:55 PM
It is similar to the 68 and earlier 289-302 blocks. They will easily take a .060 over bore.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
alanq64
Gearhead Posts: 174
From: missouri
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 03-09-2004 04:59 AM
How can you tell the difference? Is the word Mexico stamped on the block somewhere or do you have to run the numbers?------------------
68 coupe
302 w/C4
PS & AC
*update*
I'm getting the parts together for a T5 swap.
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4377
From: Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-09-2004 07:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by alanq64:
How can you tell the difference? Is the word Mexico stamped on the block somewhere or do you have to run the numbers?
'Hecho en Mexico' cast into the lifter valley  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-09-2004 09:52 AM
And they have a rather distinct aroma about them also.  Yo carro Taco Bell?  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4377
From: Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-09-2004 09:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Yo carro Taco Bell?
Ahem... You quierro Taco Bell. Close enough  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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kcode
Gearhead Posts: 3029
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 03-09-2004 09:56 PM
Besides the distinct smell of Tacos, the block will have two large casting lugs on the front of the block. It will also have extra casting flash in the area where the mechanical fuel pump would locate. If you use an aftermarket pump you will probably have to grind some of it for clearance.Mike
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 03-10-2004 10:16 PM
wanna see you break a "weak" late model block first. id say you're good for a solid 600hp for quite a few pulls on a weak one. have only seen one split in two. it was a 347 with a huge hit of nitrous. 200 shot isnt huge.------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-11-2004 08:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CHIPSBAD67:
wanna see you break a "weak" late model block first. id say you're good for a solid 600hp for quite a few pulls on a weak one. have only seen one split in two. it was a 347 with a huge hit of nitrous. 200 shot isnt huge.
I appreciate that...I'm planning on going NA around 350-360 cubes and spinning about 8000 or so.... I've seen 302's drop the main webbing completely out of the block and that at about 400hp. And I want to go about .060 over. So I know production blocks can be marginal if not done properly. I've been told that the late 60's early 70's blocks are the best as far as production blocks go. I have a few of them lying around, but I have a chance to buy a Mexican block. I just want to make sure it has advantages before I lay out the cash
------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 03-11-2004 04:32 PM
Once you get up to the 500hp range... you're in uncertain territory. At this stage, detonation is the main cause of disaster.A stock block laying down 500 is on the edge. Running it into detonation (even light detonation) can be one heavy straw on the camel's back. Running a stock block into heavy detonation at this level (even a Mexican) is guaranteed to instantly ruin your day. For MAJOR abuse, step up to the aftermarket. That extra cash shelled out for the strong block will more than pay for itself the first time it keep the whole engine from coming unglued. I've had good luck pushing the boundries of the stock block, but I pull out PLENTY of timing when using the nitrous, and am always sure to DRAIN the pump fuel and replace it with at least 110 octane before turning the bottle on. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 03-11-2004 10:53 PM
main webbing fall out at 400hp? id be willing to bet there was something else wrong, that aint typical. im probably a lot closer to 400hp than blowing out the block and im sure my motor will take a 200 shot all day. have seen too many guys running a 150/200 shot on 5.0 blocks with over 150k, and thats with the stock pistons and you know the factory doesnt set you up like a good machinist. add quality parts and assembly and the durability goes up. if these motors couldnt take it they wouldnt have a reputation like they have now. ------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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Capri
Gearhead Posts: 1368
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-11-2004 11:21 PM
Hmmmmm. Have you ever seen a stock 5.0 block end up in 4 pieces? Not counting the shreds of course? I have. Stock bottom end, mild ported heads, 150 shot of nitrous and a cam. dump the clutch at 3 grand and OOPS! lifter valley, left and right sides of the block, and the center complete with crank and rods. Well, what was left of the crank and rods anyway. The crank snout and balancer was laying on the ground afterwards also.
The bottom line is destruction can occur. Doesnt matter what it is. Especially with nitrous. All it takes is 1 stuck solenoid and BOOM!!!!! The pieces are very lightweight by themselves too!
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-12-2004 07:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CHIPSBAD67:
main webbing fall out at 400hp? id be willing to bet there was something else wrong, that aint typical.
Could have been...but this was back in the mid-1980's, it was a hi-rpm mid 11 second 289 cubic inch stickshift car that had a brutal launch. It let loose when the motor was at an idle, with the crank and rods still basically intact but laying in the oil pan with the block's main webbing still attached! And don't get me wrong, I know there's guys that are pumping 600hp thru late model roller blocks. But after my last motor blew up I'm a little less of a risk taker than I used to be when it comes to the shortblock
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Buster
Gearhead Posts: 1437
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002
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posted 03-12-2004 11:12 AM
The 302 that was in my 1968 Stang when I bought it had 4 years of major abuse, just about every weekend and then over 2 years with me driving it. The majority of the time down the track it was on the bottle with a 125 shot and ran 10.70?s on the bottle with high 1.40?s to low 1.50?s short times. I think it was an early to mid 70's block. It would have lasted even longer if I hadn't made the fatal error staying in it when it started to surge around the 1000' mark. I found out later that the NOS solenoid started to malfunction and was basically pumping raw fuel into the engine... hydraulicing the cylinders. Although, I don?t know what hp range it would take to run 10.70?s. But, I think as long as it?s balanced properly the stock block is good for the mid 10 second range. I also have a friend that was running as fast as 9.7?s with a normally aspirated stock 351w block. It was in an 1985 Stang and I think his short times were in the high 1.20?s. He ultimately broke the main webbing around the pan rail area. So, from what I?ve seen once you get past the mid 10?s it?s best not to use a stock block 302 or 351w.
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 03-12-2004 09:01 PM
all the posts are correct but there is one common thread that connects them. any motor that's on juices or boost and goes lean or see's some other malfunction will be catastrophic to the block, crank, rods, pistons....etc. its still amazing how much a stock small blocked ford will take and make power with. thats why i love the dang thing so much. but even a high dollar race block will blow given the right hicup. also i have an article out of mm&ff on a guy that had over 600 passes on a dss kit 306 with massive nitrous and stock block. the fox body ran 9's. there was a main girdle in the bottom but the thing held together and was eventually pulled and sold to a guy that put it in his pickup truck. there are other articles with 302's pulling down over 655 hp with afr heads and nitrous on the dyno. if you need a race block, you must be getting ready to make some serious power. ------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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