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Author
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Topic: FMS/McLeod scattershield and hydraulic clutch? HELP
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RaSMG
Journeyman Posts: 27
From: Central CA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-05-2004 03:13 AM
   
Hi all, I've been lurking for months, never posted much cause I usually find what I need searching but I have two specific questions that I bet someone can help me with.I'm putting a TKO on a 306, looking at a FMS scattershield (I can get a good price on) which I've heard is the same as the Mcleod. Can anyone confirm that they are the same and/or if the FMS has 'indexed runout' like the Mcleod unit does, ie no dowel indexing like the lakewood. The reason I'm skeptical is that I heard the Mcleod unit works with Tremec or T5 if you ever swap but the ford racing listing shows two different versions 'Tremec Scatter Shield M6392C' and 'T-5 Scatter Shield M6392A' so that threw me off. Anyone? Next question might be more tricky. In searching I noticed that everyone runs the stock type cable clutch and in some instances an extended clutch fork is required for 'proper gemoetry' and release of the throwout bearing when using a scattershield bellhousing. I will be using a hydraulic master/slave cylinder linkage setup and was wondering if anyone has any experience hooking them up with a scattershield. It's basically a hydraulic master cylinder and pushrod connected to the clutch pedal, lines going to another 'slave' cylinder, and a remote fluid reservoir. The slave cylinder is mounted on the transmission for my application and the adjustable pushrod pushes the clutch fork end towards the engine releasing the throwout bearing similar to the cables. A company named JMC makes the kits for classic mustangs but I have all the correct part numbers and will be building the kit myself. I will be using the throwout bearing that comes with my SPEC stage 3 clutch if that matters. If you've never heard of the hydraulic linkage here's a few pictures that show how it works and installs.
http://www.autoworks.cc/65-70_clutch_kit_instructions.htm
Technically it's not a 'hydraulic clutch' as it uses a standard TO bearing, it's just a linkage system with hydraulic benefits. Anyone have any ideas on if I'll need the longer clutch fork with that setup? Thanks for reading all that, I know it's long but I thought I'd give all the specs now rather than wait and have to answer ?'s later.
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SundanceKid
Gearhead Posts: 1269
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-05-2004 05:36 AM
Mcleod and FMS are the same. I know there is a standard SROD aluminum bell and the scatter shield that FMS sells. Look in the tech pages and you can see the part numbers in my write up. The Mcleod bell has a dual patern IMHO it is cheesey. Some of the holes are elongated. JMC has kits available for the Tremec with or without a scattershield. Have no clue if there are any differences. I'd be interested in your part numbers for the kit...if you could e-mail me?? Stock clutch fork for a T-5 should work fine for both. There is a heavy duty and a standard version both are the same length. The different sized forks are for Long style clutches. Your setup is a hydraulic clutch as it uses hydraulic (fluid) to actuate. I think you meant you don't have hydraulic throw out bearing.
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66-408-stang
Journeyman Posts: 56
From: lafayette, in usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-05-2004 08:49 AM
As sundance has basically said, Mcleod made the housings for ford. Red Roberts spent a good deal of time and money to make a very good product. Most Mcleod housings require no offset, although I would still check for any roundout using a dial indicator, especially on a used unit. The original position of the b/w (now tremec) t-5 is slightly rotated as compared to the tremec 3550 which is straight up. The input shaft length is the same which is why some bell housing can have both bolt patterns, makes them more universal at the expense of being a little cheezy at first glance. Not as bad as the old cragar unilug!As far as hydraulic, you can either go directly with a hyro throwout bearing, eliminating the fork all together, or mount an external slave to manually actuate the fork. The latter is what I did in my mustang. The entire system was pieced together fairly cheaply using common circle track/street rod parts. Mounted the slave (about $55) directly to the transmission (tko), the remote reservour master ($65) onto the firewall slightly above where the rod went through the firewall, and a SS hydraulic line ($15). First modified the pedal assembly with rollers bearings to replace the plastic sleeves, then braced the firewall to minimize flexing. This was the most time consuming - it must be braced really well or you will lose valuable deflection. The clutch pedal arm has several holes drilled so that the ratio can be changed easily if desired. A simple piece of all-thread and rod ends connects the master to pedal. I currently run a 2400lb pressure plate that you can push the pedal down with your hand and still get full disengagement. Plus, no more bars in the way of the headers!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-05-2004 09:58 AM
Just an FYI.
Most of my NHRA/IHRA Superstock stick shift counterparts run 900 lbs or LESS static pressure.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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66-408-stang
Journeyman Posts: 56
From: lafayette, in usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-05-2004 12:11 PM
Moneymaker. I understand. This is a street only car, every day transportation in decent weather, and am currently running 11" full organic with the 2400 lb plate for best street manners. I have used the mcleod rev-loc metal disc in the past with a lot less pressure (about 1000) but found out this does not work too well for street daily use.
Sure was fun, though...
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66-408-stang
Journeyman Posts: 56
From: lafayette, in usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-05-2004 12:21 PM
Forgot something. I used a puller slave instead of pusher to gain additional header clearance. Fabricated a D-bracket to go over the end of the clutch fork with a ball bearing to allow pivoting, tied this to the slave, other end of slave goes to side of tko or towards the tail (several ways to anchor). Easiest way is to use all-thread from slave back to a piece of angle held in place under the tranny mount. Makes for a real easy setup to remove for any clutch/tranny work.I know a few pictures would be really useful at this time. No camera yet...
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matt d
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: Coventry, CT USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 02-05-2004 06:01 PM
I have a TKO in my '66 Mustang with the JMC motorsports hydraulic clutch kit. I use the MacLeod Tremec/T-5 scattershield that you mentioned, purchased from Mustangs Unlimited under the Ford Motorsport label. It came with two rings that locate the transmission for either a 3550 or a T-5. I thoroughly checked the radial runout using a dial indicator when I installed the bellhousing and found that it was 0.007" off center. At that time (1 year ago), I couldn't find the offset dowels ANYWHERE. Since supposedly 0.007" is marginal for needing correction, I used it as is. I have put about 4,000 miles since then with no apparent issues. It was a little tough to slide the tranny into place though, maybe because of the offset. I have since purchased the 0.007" dowels and will be installing them this winter.I had to carve a chunk out of the bellhousing to be able to use the slave cylinder in the JMC kit. The bellhousing expects a cable from the front so when you try to use the slave cylinder from the rear, there is a lot of metal in the way. Nothing a die grinder (and maybe a jigsaw) can't handle. I also had to modify it slightly to clear the headers. I originally purchased the lakewood, but it looked like it would need even more modification to work. I am using a standard ford clutch fork (maybe heavy duty). I also use a SPEC stage II clutch which seems perfect. The hydraulic clutch setup works beautifully once installed. No issues since installation. During installation I had to shorten the master cylinder input rod and tap more threads onto it. When I called JMC about the cylinder being too long they said that they come longer sometimes (lame). I figured it was easier to shorten it than to mail it back, etc. Good luck. -Matt ------------------
66 coupe with: 351W, Comp Cams XE262H cam, Trickflow heads, Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 600 carb, Ford roller rockers, Hooker Super Comps, Dr. Gas X-pipe with 2-chamber delta flows, Tremec TKO, Steeda Tri-Ax, 9" rear w/ 3.70s and a True-Trac limited slip, 5-leaf rear springs, 620s front, KYBs, shelby A-arm drop, Torque-thrust IIs, autopower roll bar with retractable shoulder belts, custom dash and electrical system
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RaSMG
Journeyman Posts: 27
From: Central CA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 02-05-2004 06:14 PM
Thanks for the info everyone! Seems like this is the only place I can get a tech question answered with experience, the guys at stangnet and corralnet only reply if it's a 'x pipe or h pipe' or vendor bashing.
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