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Author
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Topic: Backhalving an early Mustang??
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-28-2004 11:58 PM
   
How much time would it take to tub and install a new rear ladder bar/coil-over suspension in an early Mustang? If anyone has had this done, what did it cost?http://www.cachassisworks.com/ Click "how to" then select "install A subframe & suspension". ]
The roll cage is already installed in this car. It's a 10 second '67 Mustang and he's asking us to quote the install, and we won't be shortening the axles. Any ideas will be appreciated, even if you have no idea.  SteveW
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thumpin cat
Gearhead Posts: 458
From: Santa Barbara, California
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-29-2004 01:51 AM
Well Steve im by no means an expert but in order to install a subframe and suspension the rear end will have to be shortened. The next option would be to install rear coil over shocks along with ladder bars then mini tubbing it. If your welding skills are good i don't think it should take too long.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-29-2004 09:48 AM
Steve, you are looking at 20-25 hours with a custom "Mustang" pre-fab kit. Double that if you are using "universal" parts. 
This is taking into consideration your expertise and welding ability. Not a job for a novice with a new $99.00 tool store cataloge Christmas present welder.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-29-2004 10:55 AM
Steve, thanks for that link. I'm considering backhalving the back of my convertible. I need to do rust repair on the frame anyway, and this may be just as comparable in price, and be a sturdier set up in the end.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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CometGT1974
Gearhead Posts: 372
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 01-29-2004 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Not a job for a novice with a new $99.00 tool store cataloge Christmas present welder.
How about a $350.00 Crapsman welder?? 
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-29-2004 11:32 AM
Alex,It will be a project with my son, he's the certified welder/fabricator. No shortage of talent or welding equipment here. Just trying to get an idea of labor hours, and I think you're close with 25+ hours.
We were thinking 3 days, one to disassemble and cut the floor out. One to fit and weld the subframe and hang the suspension, and another for sheetmetal work. I'll talk to the guy and see if he'd rather go with leafs and a floater like yours with ladderbars. SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-29-2004 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Steve, thanks for that link. I'm considering backhalving the back of my convertible. I need to do rust repair on the frame anyway, and this may be just as comparable in price, and be a sturdier set up in the end.
You're welcome Steve, it looks like a fun project.
SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-29-2004 11:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Alex,It will be a project with my son, he's the certified welder/fabricator. No shortage of talent or welding equipment here.
SteveW
I know that Steve. I based my estimate on that knowledge.
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-29-2004 04:43 PM
It will probably take longer than you think it will. (my projects always do) Especially if you've never done one before.BUT, it will be good experience. Doing is the best way to learn. Don't get in a hurry just to 'keep on schedule'. Do it right and gain as learn as much about doing it right as possible. The http://www.cachassisworks.com/How%20To/htss1.htm site has a project where they back half a 65 mustang. It might be worth a read. You might also go through Dave Morgan's book, "Door Slammers" for some insight. I haven't done one yet, either. However, I do have all the parts when I'm ready... and have studied up on it. I was going to do the mustang, but put that on hold. I'd rather cut up something else. Too much history there, as I've had the car since age 15. (20 years) A tubbed 64-65 falcon with a mustang II front end and 400+ci nitroused 351W would be really cool. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220 [This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 01-29-2004).]
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2751
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-29-2004 09:04 PM
I did a back then a front on my car. It took a bit longer than 25 hrs though.
Tim work takes the longest.
measuring 400 times diagnolly and straight takes forever too. I added 3 inches to my car's wheel base for handling. This always makes body work interesting later, but I'm glad i did it. ------------------
JS
Run what you brung and hope you brung enough!
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
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zepheracer
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Butte, Mt.
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 01-29-2004 09:09 PM
Steve, are you going to backhalve your Mustang or just add ladder bars. You said you didn't want to shorten your axles. I used a chassisworks rear subframe with a four link. You will hve to modify you cage since some of it welds to the new frame.You might as well shorten your axle to take advantage of a larger tire. You will have to retin the entire back also. I would guess 60-80 hours. Maybe I'm just slow.
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CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 01-29-2004 10:32 PM
steve, dont do it. please, im begging you. ------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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thumpin cat
Gearhead Posts: 458
From: Santa Barbara, California
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-29-2004 10:41 PM
Chips, he is not doing his mustang. It is someone else's stang.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-29-2004 10:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thumpin cat:
Chips, he is not doing his mustang. It is someone else's stang.
Yep! It's not Melissa's it's a friend's '67 w/460 powered bracket stang. It runs 10 flats, but he needs more traction for the poor track conditions that he encounters at poorly prepped tracks. He travels a lot and the New Year's race at LACR was when he decided it was time to make the jump. He's putting his '70 back to street duty and the '67 will be his racecar. SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-29-2004 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jsracingbbf:
I did a back then a front on my car. It took a bit longer than 25 hrs though.
Tim work takes the longest.
measuring 400 times diagnolly and straight takes forever too. I added 3 inches to my car's wheel base for handling. This always makes body work interesting later, but I'm glad i did it.
Thanks Jerry, Talke to my partner tonight (my son) and it'll have to be an hourly job with a not to exceed $2500 labor deal. SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-29-2004 11:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CHIPSBAD67:
steve, dont do it. please, im begging you.
Chip, I'll be doing it to my car in a couple years, but I'll go 4 link! And it isn't a Mustang. SteveW
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thumpin cat
Gearhead Posts: 458
From: Santa Barbara, California
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-30-2004 04:35 AM
Steve, what is your friends current suspension combination? Do you think a coil over/ladder bar suspension will work better on his car than a cal-trak set up?
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-30-2004 10:42 PM
TC,I'm not sure what leaf combo he's using now, last I heard he was using the springs that had 5 leafs in front of the axle and one behind. I think he runs 10.5-28" slicks. I've talked to him about CalTracks and monos, but he's gonna try the common "big tire, ladderbar" route. He might as well since it's a dedicated bracket race car and he doesn't mind cutting it up. SteveW
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-30-2004 11:32 PM
With a heavy 460 up front the thing will need a decent tire ("tar" to our Division 2 friends)under it. Because the Mustang wheelwells are pretty small diameter and you are likely using a larger than 28" slick i'd move the rear end forward 2 to 3" and only modify the front of the wheelwell. This will make 105-106" wheelbase.
One tip, measure and prefit everything before welding anything. Hold the rear end , ladder bars, wheels and tires in the open area and get an idea how everything fits and looks. Some areas need to be welded in sequence since you won't be able to reach them after.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-30-2004 11:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TomP:
Because the Mustang wheelwells are pretty small diameter and you are likely using a larger than 28" slick i'd move the rear end forward 2 to 3" and only modify the front of the wheelwell. This will make 105-106" wheelbase.
Tom, Thanks for the tips! I was hoping you'd give me some advice. Are you saying to keep the stock wheelwells? If I tub it with big tubs I can put the "tar" anywhere I want right? Or are you saying to move the tubs forward too? Thanks again, SteveW
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Billy Mac
Gearhead Posts: 824
From: S.Ga
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 01-30-2004 11:47 PM
Another option....(and much better in the long run, IMO)....move the rearend BACK....leave the front of the wheel well as is.....thus LENGTHENING the wheelbase...(MUCH more stable at speed)...besides....when you cut it out for the tubs....there is only the outer "body" sheet metal to have to deal with....and if you are really good at bodywork...the wheelwell can be "sectioned" and made to "LOOK" stock...Just a wider opening!!
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Buster
Gearhead Posts: 1437
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002
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posted 01-30-2004 11:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TomP:
"tar" to our Division 2 friends
roflmbo.....
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 02-01-2004 02:49 AM
Moving the "tars" back and lengthening the wheelbase makes the car look like a weiner dog and worsens the already bad weight distribution of a 460 Mustang. We aren't talking about moving the wheelwells into the door post so it looks like a 1965 AFX Mopar. You can use the stock tubs if you have a smaller tire but use normal tin tubs for anything bigger. I kinda like the way the stock wheelwells stiffen the body, to stretch them in length as well as width isn't a bad idea.
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