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Author
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Topic: Hydraulic rollers- Changes?
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-13-2004 01:28 PM
   
I am currently putting together a motor to run in NMRA pure street class. The rules require stock unmodified OEM roller lifters. While I am not allowed to modify the lifters I am sure it is ok to rebuild them. Is there anything that can be done to increase the useable rpm range. I have never used hydraulic lifters before so I know nothing about them.Alex, I will be odering a cam from you as soon as they release the 2004 spec fuel list so I will know what compression ratio I am using. John
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-14-2004 10:52 AM
No tips?
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 7221
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-14-2004 10:56 AM
sorry john, i dont have a clue. the oem roller lifters are great lifters. i have ran mine for several years with no problems. i regularly spin mine 6500 and occasionly to 7000 (by accident)------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.47 @90mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/billswebsite/pg06.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 11:27 AM
John, think shims! Remember the old days?  NMRA has lifter "claimer" rules.
Sooooo, you have to be inovative and not invest much time or effort.
A premium core lifter is as good a starting place as any.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 11:28 AM
PS, sorry John, I missed this thread before.
Got caught up with strings, rings, and other things. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-14-2004 01:14 PM
Thanks Mike and Alex.Yes I remember the old days, Beer, hot young women, fast V8's from Detroit but I never fooled with hydraulic lifters. I guess it's time to broaden my horizons. Shims, hmmmm. John
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 7221
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-14-2004 01:53 PM
forget the lifters and go back to the beer and hot young women!! its a lot more fun ------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.47 @90mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft. http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/billswebsite/pg06.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 03:21 PM
Take apart the lifters and shim them up John.
Do you have any?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1333
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-14-2004 04:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Take apart the lifters and shim them up John.
Do you have any?
Is that all Johnson racing does?
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-14-2004 05:23 PM
No I don't, the motor I bought to be the base for this project is out of an 85 T-Bird. I have not taken it apart yet but I don't think these were roller engines. I got the complete engine for 100 bucks. It was too cheap to pass up.I thought that was what you meant about the shims. It makes me think the spring could be altered to do the same thing. If a spring is stretched so that it takes a set to a longer length when released it becomes a stiffer spring rate. That gives me two things to play with, shim it, try it, then play with springs and try it again. I could occupy a whole night of test and tune and only have to replace some springs if I screwed it up. John
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 06:25 PM
85 TBI was flat tappet John. 
Sorry.
I think I have some cherry FRPP take outs I can hook you up with though.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Andy Johnson
Journeyman Posts: 22
From: Yukon, Ok USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-14-2004 06:42 PM
John, the way to get the motors to RPM while using a "stock Unmodified Lifter" is to use the lightest valves you can find (ie:hollow stem Ferra's)light titanium retainers, proper spring pressure, restricted pushrods and of course a properly ground cam. The way that the ramps are ground on the camshaft has alot to do with this. We turned our motor to 8200 rpm w/o any lifter problems. I wouldnt get caught shimming the lifters, that is one of the first things they look for when they check your combo. You can e-mail me at [email protected] if you have any questions. By the way I do have a new in the box P/S Bennett Racing camshaft for sale. Good Luck
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 07:05 PM
The idea is to not get carried away. All lifters are not created equal. You don't obviously CHEAT, you find the best one and make them all the same.
We worked with
Ron Anderson some last year and he also can spin stuff in that RPM range with "stock" (ahem) roller lifters.
Also, I didn't think that John had that kind of a "budget" in mind Andy.FYI, Manley makes the lightest titanium retainers in the industry. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
CHIPSBAD67
Gearhead Posts: 396
From: LOU,KY;USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 01-14-2004 10:23 PM
also, talk to rick anderson at anderson ford motorsports (AFM). this is where i got my cam after much research into spinning the oem hyd. roller upstairs. this guy is a pro in my book and claims you can spin oem's over 8000 rpm with his cams and a good valvetrain. im very happy with my cam. i dont know if he is any relation to the guy alex is talking about but if he is, these are the guys. you can find their number in the afm ads in mm&ff magazine. ------------------
306, 4speed, 4.11's....best 1/8 mile 7.58 at 92mph with 1.72 60ft. PUMP GAS/NO ADDERS/STREET TIRES
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-14-2004 10:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CHIPSBAD67:
also, talk to rick anderson at anderson ford motorsports (AFM). this is where i got my cam after much research into spinning the oem hyd. roller upstairs. this guy is a pro in my book and claims you can spin oem's over 8000 rpm with his cams and a good valvetrain. im very happy with my cam. i dont know if he is any relation to the guy alex is talking about but if he is, these are the guys. you can find their number in the afm ads in mm&ff magazine.
They are indeed related. Ron founded the business and sold it to Rick when he retired. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
654212spd
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: st.louis mo usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-14-2004 11:54 PM
alex i heard j kuntz is doing ron andersons dart block for pure street
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-15-2004 12:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 654212spd:
alex i heard j kuntz is doing ron andersons dart block for pure street
Correct.
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 898
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-15-2004 11:07 AM
You are right Alex, I am building this on a very limited budget. I won't be competitive this year and in fact will be lucky to make the Kansas city race. But I will upgrade the car as cash allows and hope to be among the top qualifiers in 2005. I would be interested in the FRPP takeouts, how much?Isn't Ron Anderson the guy who raced a Boss 302 Maverick in NHRA's best class Super Modified (Modified Eliminator version). I went to Indy one year in the early 70's and the only thing I remember about the race was watching the Super Modified's run for class. The final was two Mavericks, unfortunatly one of them had been defiled with a Chitty motor and it won. (Rehr and Morrison) John
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26811
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-15-2004 01:24 PM
That's the guy John. Same Ron Anderson.E-mail me John and we'll work something out.
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
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