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Author
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Topic: Evac system Anyone use one
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-08-2004 11:09 AM
   
www.mpgheads.com under catalog evac system.They claim 20 horsepower and I saw an article in Hot Rod where they gained 20 horse on dyno with an evac system. I didn't know if anyone has had experience with them.
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-08-2004 02:38 PM
To answer my own question I called them up today. They said it almost works as a reverse mini supercharger pulling vapor out of the engine. It comes with brackets and pulleys and attaches to the valve cover with a supplied grommet. The other valve cover is blocked off. They said they regularly see a 20 horsepower gain from this system. I'm just kicking it around.
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 899
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 01-08-2004 03:14 PM
Lowering crankcase pressure with a pump is a common thing on race engines. I am unsure where the performance level that it becomes effictive is. I think the higher you turn the motor, the move pan vacum helps.There are several vendors for pan evac systems, I would check around with some of the other vendors for quality and price before I spent that much money. Hopefully Alex will spy this thread, I am sure he has some actual experience with this subject. Pan evac was just getting started when I took my temporary leave of racing. John
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654212spd
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: st.louis mo usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-08-2004 05:23 PM
yes it is true at least 20 hp ive heard more than that
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 430
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 01-08-2004 06:52 PM
I use it on my 460, I saw a post on 385 series forum where one of the members there tested it on an engine they had on a dyno. They made a pull, recorded data, took about 10 min to install evac kit, made no other changes at all, next pull was 16 HP higher. So I looked at one then made my own by welding 3/8 pipe into each collector & running a piece of 5/8 silicone heater hose to each valve cover. The kits come with check valves to prevent reversion, I already had them, they are emission check valves used on smog pump applications. You can feel the vacuum with your finger on the hose & mine was stronger without the check valves than with. Gave a few hundreths in ET & greatly reduces minor oil leaks in a full throttle application with alky. Dont know if it be of value on a street engine. I guess it would depend on ammount of blowby. It was worth the work IMO.
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 01-08-2004 07:02 PM
i would maybe look into a non-pump evac system, they are much cheaper, may not work as well though, and this is what cracing is talking about i'm sure
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR%2D25900&view=257#largerimage
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cracing
Gearhead Posts: 430
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 01-08-2004 07:15 PM
Yep, but I used twist in Ford caps instead of the push in Chrysler style. I use a left side valve cover on the right side also. Left side vents out front of cover & right side vents out rear. Both valve covers are baffled from factory.
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V-8
Gearhead Posts: 323
From: TURKEY/Istanbul
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-08-2004 07:37 PM
I'm using. http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1783&prmenbr=361
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 01-08-2004 10:49 PM
same as the one i posted v8 
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-09-2004 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cracing:
The kits come with check valves to prevent reversion... You can feel the vacuum with your finger on the hose & mine was stronger without the check valves than with.
Does that mean you're running straight tubes without any check valves to the collector nipples? I'm thinking that as long as you didn't any backpressure in the exhaust system (such as mufflers) you shouldn't run the risk of any reversion & the valves wouldn't be necessary...correct? I'd guess if the valves were to stick shut, then they wouldn't work at all.......... Ryan
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6405
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-09-2004 10:33 AM
I run the "cheap" kit, and truthfully, I saw no gain. The only thing it did for my motor, was it keeps the moisture out of the valve covers. It didn't make my car any faster at all. I think the only way to get any major benefit from an evac system is to run a pump of some sort and a minimum of 14" of vacuum.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2004 10:43 AM
I run a pan evacuation system on MM and have for many years. It has been refined here and there, but is still basically two one way breathers and check valves. The position of the collector entry tube is the most critical aspect of an installation. Anything you can do to relieve crank case pressure will create more power. Up untill this year, a vaccum pump was not legal in SuperStock. We can now run an elictric unit and I will try one on the dyno during our annual testing in March.
We have seen an average pick up of 8-10 HP with the simple system and as much as a 25 HP increase with a belt driven pump and valve in collector system in NMRA style 370+ inch engines.
I would never put a race engine on the track without some sort of system.
I only wish that they were legal on our Stock Eliminator cars. 
We do sort of have a evacuation system on them that I "fudged", but it does not utilize the headers as per the "rules".  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 11:17 AM
Thanks for the great input. My last dyno session with the 428 pulled 472 rear wheel horse and 475 torque. That's 60 hp and 60 lbs of torque increase from previous engine.
I was looking at the evac system to jump just a bit more.Thanks again
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afret
Gearhead Posts: 212
From: Lancaster, CA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 01-09-2004 11:24 AM
I think the main reason for the check valve is to protect the crankcase in case there is an explosion (backfire) in the exhaust. Probably not a good idea to run without one IMHO.
The picture on the site referenced by Steve Engberg kind of looks like a electric smog pump off a late model Cobra (might be wrong on this). Seems like a lot of guys are using electric smog pumps like the ones from the SS Camaros. You can find them really cheap on the auction site. The only thing with them is they probably are not on all the time when used in their original application so I would think they won't last too long if used continuously on the street. Maybe a switch to turn them on for a 1/4 mile pass would work for street cars.[This message has been edited by afret (edited 01-09-2004).]
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6405
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-09-2004 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
The position of the collector entry tube is the most critical aspect of an installation.
Mine must be in the wrong place. Must have been in the wrong place on the other set of headers I used also. I have never seen any ET improvement by using it. The only reason I run it now is too keep from getting the oil mist all over the firewall.
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 11:53 AM
According to MPGheads they have set their pump up with the proper pulley sizing to get the best benefit. It is a pulley system not electric.
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CometGT1974
Gearhead Posts: 413
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 01-09-2004 11:55 AM
Are more benefits seen on a nitorus motor?? If you install a vacuum pump doesn't that mean you can run low tension rings??
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clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 1189
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 12:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by afret:
Seems like a lot of guys are using electric smog pumps like the ones from the SS Camaros.
I have one of these. I think I'm going to experiment with it on my new engine. The only thing I'm worried about is sucking oil mist and gunk through the pump. In it's stock application, it sucks filtered air. I don't know how it will hold up, but I'll give it a try.. ------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V
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Hans olsson
Gearhead Posts: 718
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 01-09-2004 12:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I only wish that they were legal on our Stock Eliminator cars.
So do i.
------------------
- 71 Mach 1 Ram-Air
- 351C 4V 285 HP
- F-G/Stock Aut
- Stockers are way cool!
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6405
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-09-2004 02:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ZEATER:
According to MPGheads ....
Here's my opinion about them, they claim a lot of remarkable things, and most are pure BS. I wouldn't buy a glass of water from them, or their sister company CamResearch.
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 03:16 PM
I didn't realize they were with CamResearch. I have MPGheads export brace and Monte Carlo bar set up and am happy with it. I wasn't endorsing their Evac system just getting an opinion on the 20 horsepower claims. I'm always looking for an edge and an extra 20 horse with a simple bolt on at this point is an edge. The other evac systems I've seen were hooked to the header with no pump. This system uses a belt driven pump into a canister.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2004 03:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Here's my opinion about them, they claim a lot of remarkable things, and most are pure BS. I wouldn't buy a glass of water from them, or their sister company CamResearch.
Is that the same outfit who sells the "port plates" for 351C's and 385 series engines?
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 03:38 PM
Yes, they have the port plates. Shackle elimination kit and export and monte carlo bars.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2004 04:43 PM
 ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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ZEATER
Gearhead Posts: 177
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-09-2004 05:28 PM
I'm guessing that's a negative response from Mr. Moneymaker. The only thing I like about their (mpgheads) system is that it is a complete kit with pulleys, brackets and hook ups. The Moroso unit I looked at had to be pieced together and did not show pulleys to use or hook ups.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2004 05:37 PM
The only experiance I have with MPG products is in regard to their port plates and
those have zero credibility with me.
I have no feelings positive or negative towards their other products.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2904
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-09-2004 06:55 PM
I am not an expert by any means but after testing some of the latest stuff out there and 20 years of running the header type system this is what I have found. 1. The header Evac system when set up properly will help keep condensate and crap from building up in your oil. It helps a little bit on top end but not enough to notice. I had to REALLY scrutinize my time slip to see anything at all. The angle and position in the collector where the pipes are welded is critical. 2. An electric pump works slightly better than the Pan Evac system. With everything blocked off on a 351W race motor, fresh good gaskets, we measured the vacuum one of these pulled on the motor. It was about 4-5 inches, nothing to write home about but marginally better than the header evac. 3. tested a pump on a buddy of mine's 10.5 heads up 5.0 car, with vacuum relief valve set at 12" 's this thing pulled the full twelve inches!  supposedly in the ball park for running low tension rings and keeping funk our of your oil if you run methanol.
I've been told that higher levels of vacuum can cause problems with your engine, pulling oil away from areas and oiling the internals of the pump down.
A seperator is a must on a system like this. What do I run?
Nothing, I cant run a pan evac because I dont want water condensate all over my rear tires and I dont want a half a$$ electric. I'll just wait till I can get a belt driven vacuum pump!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2004 07:05 PM
Belt driven pump is the only one that will make any measurable power.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
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