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Author
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Topic: 393 cleveland with more damage on c4
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-02-2004 08:21 PM
   
I got the trans. out last weekend. i lost the driveshaft, the exhaust, the c4 trans.was damage the belll housing the tail shaft, the main pumpshaft in the trans. was broke, I pull the rearend it look good . took the trans. to shop we not sure but look like trans. lock up but why!!!this trans. broke at the end of the run ??? any answer?? jim1320------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-02-2004 09:44 PM
Jim,I'd say the driveshaft took out the tranny. Pretty sure the tranny didn't take out the driveshaft,  SteveW
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clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 1035
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-02-2004 11:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Jim,I'd say the driveshaft took out the tranny. Pretty sure the tranny didn't take out the driveshaft, SteveW
That would be my guess, too. Im not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen an automatic abruply lock up. 
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Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-02-2004 11:49 PM
Jim,Did it happen in the traps or during/after shutdown?
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-02-2004 11:51 PM
Do you have a trans brake?
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-03-2004 07:49 AM
No trans. brake.. it happen after the trap pass the finish line? the driveshaft twist into in the middle of the shaft. looking for answer??? thank you jim1320 ------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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67coupe
Gearhead Posts: 488
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-03-2004 10:44 AM
i have had a c6 that would lock up when it heated up for no reason took back to the guy that built it he tore it down and found a little crack in the housing that was letting pressure from third bleed into second somehow anyway i got my money back since it was 3 days old guess im just saying it is possible  ------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c (currently broke:( )
8.41 in the 1/8
1.90 60'
at 82.03 mph
94 Explorer
30 model A currently rustbucket
in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-03-2004 02:57 PM
I not sure what happen!!!!!!!! but looking for answer??? the convter was new only 12 passes on it ati product 8 inch 4600 stall. like to know what happen so itwill not do it again jim1320------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 1035
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-03-2004 03:15 PM
Broken drive shafts spinning on the end of the trans can do a lot of damage. I have a friend who broke a driveshaft on launch(6000rpm super T10). He broke the tail shaft off the trans and stretched the Lakewood steel bellhousing. Not to mention the big hole in the floor board. It doesn't suprise me at all if you have trans damage from your drive shaft. At the end of a run, that drive shaft was turning max rpm. If your engine RPM was 6000 plus, just think what a 6000rpm drive shaft can do if it's not attached at both ends. ------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-03-2004 03:40 PM
Tell me a few things?
1) What kind of drive shaft and u-joints?
2) Motor mounts and trans mount. Type and material.
Only one way a C-4 bell housing will break and that is via alignment issue or vibration.
Been there and done that! ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-03-2004 04:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Only one way a C-4 bell housing will break and that is via alignment issue or vibration.
Been there and done that!
Me too!! 
I had a very sloppy fitting factory pinion yoke, and the u joint didnt fit very well; it was too loose. Well, if the ujoint wasnt centered perfectly in that wore out pinion yoke, it would vibrate. A couple of years back, we took the car to Topeka for the first race of the new season, and I didn't have the ujoint centered. Anyways, pass #5 of the weekend, the rear ujoint broke towards the end of a mid 10.40 pass, and it tore up all kinds of stuff. Not only did the driveshaft get ruined, but it bent the pinion yoke, broke the c4 bellhousing, and bent the output shaft. The real scarey part is, about 3/4 track I felt the back end of the car get real loose like it drove thru something real slick. It did, my own transmission fluid.
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-03-2004 08:15 PM
Thanks for writing i was running stock driveshaft,new u joints large ones in the rear yolk (1350) and stock ones in the front the u joints. stock motor mounts and stock trans mounts the driveshaft broke in the center??? the u joints front side ok the rear broke do to shaft breaking. do think driveshaft cause this problem it was swist in center of shaft thanks for writing. jim1320------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-03-2004 08:23 PM
Just for reference, I ran a stock driveshaft (actually was the factory shaft out of my 2v equiped 302 mustang) in my car till a year ago. It lived thru a whole bunch of low 10 second passes, and one high 9 second pass till it expired right on the starting line. And I really think the rear joint broke and caused the rest of it to come apart. AND, I was running the small series of ujoints the whole time.
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-03-2004 10:07 PM
Thanks kid what i not sure why after finish line??? was it just the driveshaft??? jim1320 ------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-03-2004 11:39 PM
I had the exact same thing happen several years back with a stock drive shaft. Had my quickest pass ever at that time on my last run of the day (on a great hooking track)! I felt a vibration in the shut down. Took the car home and put it up on jackstands, looked everything over, couldn't find anything wrong! Ran the car the next weekend, every pass had the vibration after I let off after the finish line. Stupid me kept running it, think it was the forth time run, it let go in the shut down at about 115mph. Driveshaft broke in the middle, broke the c4 bellhousing, front pump, bent both yokes, and banged up the underside of the car. Think it tweeked the stock shaft hooking so hard the week before, and just kind of uncoiled when letting off the gas! If you never felt any vibration in previous runs, maybe it did it all in the same run. I never felt any vibration when I was on the gas just when I let off!Roger
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-03-2004 11:52 PM
Worn out stock mounts (both engine and trans) will cause vibration and flex. The flex will twist your driveline and drive shaft causing the damage you incurred.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-03-2004 11:53 PM
Also, consider yourself lucky! I did when mine broke! Pieces could of easily came up inside the car, punchered a tire, gas tank/fuel cell or pole volted the car on to its roof, not to mention the guy in the other lane or spectaters. Stock drivshafts only hold up to a point!Roger
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-04-2004 12:01 AM
True Alex! lot of factory parts just weren't designed for lanching with slicks on a sticky track, especially after years of use and abuse!Roger
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-04-2004 12:52 PM
Sounds like it not the trans. getting the trans. rebuild i will get a new driveshaft with the 1350 u joint and yolk for the car new engine mount and trans. Sound like ford wiser the same things hope to get back in the spring. with a new paint job?? thanks for writing have happy new year!! Good luck everybody this year !! jim1320------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
IP: Logged |
XR7
Gearhead Posts: 129
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 01-04-2004 12:56 PM
This is all interesting info! I have broken two drivlines, both at the launch. My problem was wrong pinion angle. I had a new 3 1/2" thick wall drivline made with 1350 U-joints after the first time. The second time it broke the rear yoke of the drivline, bent the tube and bent the splines on ther front yoke. The drivline builder replaced the yokes, straightened the tube and balanced it. I changed the pinion angle and the yoke on the rear end. I lowered the pinion angle, put an extra leaf in there and traction bars. I made 5 passes in October and everything held together fine but I have a slight (noticable) vibration right when I lift after the stripe. After reading this post I wonder if the drivline is really straight and balanced and also if I didn't bend my toploader outputshaft? It was a hard launch on a sticky track and it sure bent up everything else! What tranny mounts do you like Alex? I have heard you don't want a solid tranny mount.------------------
68 Cougar XR7, 428 4-speed, Best ET 7.13 @ 98 1/8, 11.14 @ 124.04 with 1.604 60 ft (with tire spin!) Street legal car w/ full interior. Soon to be updated rear suspension for traction issues!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-04-2004 01:43 PM
I prefer solid motor mounts if possible.
At the very least re-enforced HD stock type or urethane.
I use a Pro Thane or Energy type trans mount on all high performance applications.
If not available then buy two stock ones and replace as needed.
We used to change MM's trans mount 3 times a year as it got "soggy". This was prior to the introduction of the Pro Thane ear FoMoCo style trans mount. Energy only services the late model style which will fit but is too tall.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-05-2004 07:20 PM
XR7, I don't know how much I would trust a driveshaft that had the tube staightened, even if he put new ends on and balanced it. I would think the tailhousing on the tranny would break before the output shaft would bend, but could be worth checking.Roger
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gregaust
Journeyman Posts: 25
From: australia
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 01-06-2004 05:44 AM
I think you'll find it was the driveshaft.A stock tube has only a .060" wall thickness.What happens is at a certain revs the tube distorts and basically starts whipping in the middle and flies apart..
This is more likely to happen with low gears since the driveline revs are a lot higher.
Be sure the new shaft uses a thick wall tube like 3.5" x .083" or 3" x .095" wall.
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 189
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-06-2004 05:32 PM
thanks for writing jim1320 will let you know what happening!!!------------------
1970 Mach 1 393 stroker cleveland best 10.88 @123.50 3550 lb car with exhaust have fun!!!
http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/MIR-FordFeverClassic/2003/PICT0034.jpg
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XR7
Gearhead Posts: 129
From: north Idaho
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 01-06-2004 07:45 PM
He said my tube was just slightly bent and didn't take much to straighten it. I may still have him check it again. It is a 3.5 X .083 mild steel tube. I have seen a few chromemoly driveshafts on ebay for about $50 any length you want. They are old Nascar take offs. That might be a good option even if you had to shorten it a bit to fit. My trans. tailshaft housing was not cracked and the tailshaft seems straight.
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