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Author Topic:   Opinions about my proposed combo
Kyle
Gearhead

Posts: 400
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-29-2003 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kyle   Click Here to Email Kyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to know what you think about this combo for my Fairlane:

Shortblock:
-302, .040, decked, align-honed
-stock crank, .010/.010
-stock rods, beams smoothed, shot-peened, ARP rod bolts
-TRW F/T pistons, moly rings
-Fluidampr and SFI flexplate, ARP bolts for both
-Balanced
-ARP main studs
-Clevite bearings

Valvetrain:
-Victor Jr. heads
-Comp solid flat cam #31-609-5 (250/260 @.050, .568/.592 lift, 106 LCA)
-Harland Sharpe 1.6 roller rockers
-double roller timing set
-ARP head studs
-ARP cam bolt

Induction/Ignition/Exhaust:
-Victor Jr. intake
-Holley 650 DP, no P/V, air horn milled and blended
-Duraspark distributor, locked out
-MSD 6AL ignition, coil, wires
-Hooker super comp headers, no additional exhaust

Drivetrain:
-C4 tranny, manual valve body
-9" converter, 4000 stall
-4.11 gear, spool
-26" slicks

The cam is what Comp recomends. Where will I be shifting this thing? Will the engine be able to withstand the higher RPMs that I think this cam will require? Is a 4000 stall converter correct? Anybody want to venture a HP#? Thanks!

------------------
Kyle Laramore

63 Fairlane: 302, Victor Jr. heads and intake, Comp 31-639-5 solid cam, Super Comp headers, MSD 6AL, locked Duraspark Distributor, 650 Holley DP carb, C4, 3000 stall converter, manual valve body, 8" rear, Strange axles, 4.11 gears

66 Mustang coupe: 289, Offy intake, Crane Blazer hyd. camshaft, Autolite 4100 carb, Headman long tube headers, 3spd tranny, 8" rear, 3.80 gears

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-29-2003 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kyle,

Have you purchased the pistons yet? A set of Badger pop-ups would be better.

You're right thinking that the converter is too tight, but you can loosen it up. You'll be shifting close to 7,000 and should launch about 5,000. I think the bottom end will handle the rpms ok.

Your next "opportunity" will be getting the 26" slicks to hook everytime. We were able to do that with Cal-Tracs and monoleaf springs. You can too. Have fun!

SteveW

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1542
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-29-2003 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the combustion chamber volume on those heads? Sounds like a nice combo, IF you have enough compression, but unless the heads are less than 60cc`s, I doubt you would be much more than 9.00.1, which I think is too low for the rest of your pieces.

------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. 13.04@101mph
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-30-2003 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rory,

Vic Jr's are 60cc if I remember corectly. That's why I sugested pop-ups. Gotta get it up to at least 11-1, 12-1+ would be better.

SteveW

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-30-2003 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most obvious things that stick out to me are a looser converter (8 inch) and a steeper gear. (4.30 or 4.56)

It could also definitely use more compression to work with that large cam.

It will want shifted close to 7500 rpm for best performance. It won't come on STRONG until around 5k, so you'll want a converter that will allow you to launch at that rpm. You'll probably also want some collector extensions to pick up the midrange. (weld some collector rings to some short Dynomax 3" race bullets and bolt them on)

Make sure to inform your crank grinder to grind the crank to the low side of the tolerance to produce enough bearing clearance so the engine will survive repeated high rpm blasts.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Kyle
Gearhead

Posts: 400
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-30-2003 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kyle   Click Here to Email Kyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve-

The block has been machined for forged pistons. Will it make a difference in side wall clearance if I switch to cast pistons due to the different expansion rates?

And a cast piston will hold up fine in that environment/power level?

So I need a converter that flashes to 5000? Comp reccomends a 4000 stall converter with this cam. The car weighs about 3200lbs, fwiw.

------------------
Kyle Laramore

63 Fairlane: 302, Victor Jr. heads and intake, Comp 31-639-5 solid cam, Super Comp headers, MSD 6AL, locked Duraspark Distributor, 650 Holley DP carb, C4, 3000 stall converter, manual valve body, 8" rear, Strange axles, 4.11 gears

66 Mustang coupe: 289, Offy intake, Crane Blazer hyd. camshaft, Autolite 4100 carb, Headman long tube headers, 3spd tranny, 8" rear, 3.80 gears

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1278
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-30-2003 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would go with some other damper than a Fluidamper. Try a normal SFI approved elastomer damper.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-31-2003 12:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kyle,

It's not just the converter, but combined with the great heads, intake, and open exhaust your motor will not have much bottom end. It'll all be above 5,000 in my opinion anyway. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm running the same heads, intake and exhaust on top of 408 cubic inches and use a 4500 stall converter. It pulls to the upper 6,000 rpm range without falling off. In all reality you'll be pushing 8,000 before it falls off the power curve with only 302 cubes. But you need more c/r too. The 302's short stroke will help it survive, make sure it's balanced well and have good rod bolts, etc. Also use one piece push rods in the valve train.

Also, lighten up the car and it should run high 10's, if you get it to launch and hook.

SteveW

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-31-2003 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd probably get a larger carb too. This engine sounds like a good candidate for that ProForm $99 carb body to get more airflow out of your 650DP.

Either that, or stick with a 4k converter and 650 carb... while changing to a smaller camshaft. You'll want something around 10 degrees smaller if you want the engine to work with your existing converter, carb and compression ratio.

But, if it's a 100% race car, I'd use an 8" conveter regardless. 302's just don't have the torque to get a car moving out of the hole without one.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-31-2003).]

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Kyle
Gearhead

Posts: 400
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-05-2004 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kyle   Click Here to Email Kyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about using this cam instead?

242/254 @ .050, .542/.528, 105 LCA

It's a Crower camshaft, pt#15313. Would this cam be OK w/ the current compression ratio? What is your guess for power band and shift point using this cam?

I sure am glad to have guidance on this. Reading through all the cams available, as well as what manufacturers reccomend for their parts, and trying to get the whole package to match up, can get very confusing! Thanks all!

------------------
Kyle Laramore

63 Fairlane: 302, Victor Jr. heads and intake, Comp 31-639-5 solid cam, Super Comp headers, MSD 6AL, locked Duraspark Distributor, 650 Holley DP carb, C4, 3000 stall converter, manual valve body, 8" rear, Strange axles, 4.11 gears

66 Mustang coupe: 289, Offy intake, Crane Blazer hyd. camshaft, Autolite 4100 carb, Headman long tube headers, 3spd tranny, 8" rear, 3.80 gears

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-05-2004 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It matches up to the smaller carb and lower compression and tighter converter better than the last one. However, it will still probably be a little soft out of the hole without an 8" converter.

Make sure to run a VERY free flowing exhaust (or open headers) with that 105 degree lobe seperation angle.

It will probably want to be shifted around 7k.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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