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Author
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Topic: Max RPM for a 289???
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-06-2003 12:44 PM
   
Ok guys, it's winter time and it's time to think about mods to make before summer. I would like to replace the E7 heads with aluminum (AFR or EB Performer RPMs) and go to a solid cam. Possibly a solid roller cam but not sure about that yet. Anyway, before I make a decision on cam and heads I have to determine the max RPM I want to take the motor to. When I first built the motor I had always considered that the 289 with it's ultra short stroke (2.87") should be able to safely hit some pretty high RPM's. But I didn't put in high and rods or a high end crank. The bottom end has stock reconditioned rods with ARP bolts, stock crank -.010/-.010, ARP main studs, and a windage tray. What I am thinking is at least a 7000rpm red line but 7200~7300 would be better. I run the motor to 6500 now with no problems but I am not sure what the stock crank can take. With its short stroke even at 7000rpm the piston speeds seems pretty resonable, but I am not sure that is the only thing to worry about??? BTW, I am going to run 150HP NOS to it next year too. This year I ran 125HP. What do you guys think?? BTW, the car is by no means a daily drive, though it is not a race only car either. Just a weekend car and to the track a few time a year, but the track is where I have the most fun. B-loose
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5027
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-06-2003 12:50 PM
I'm definately not a 289 expert, but I would think with good rod bolts abd a balance job it should safely spin 7500 or so with a red line around 7800. Old timers alays talk about spinning them 8000 rpm "back in the day", but I don't know how much of that I beleive. Of course, I'm just guessing here. I just think that if my stock rodded cleveland could turn 7500 every gear change with it's longer stroke, that short stroke 289 should be able to do so also. I'm sure someone with some real 289 experiance will answer soon. 
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Bakken101
Gearhead Posts: 130
From: Paradise, ca. USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 12-06-2003 03:52 PM
I hear stories of the GT-40s and Cobras spoolin up to and beyond 10 grand.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6852
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-06-2003 05:04 PM
I wouldn't worry about spinning a short stroked 289 over 7,000 rpm as long as the valve train is up to it.
ARP bolts, balancing, and forged pistons for the n2o, and drill the head bolt holes out to 1/2" to match the EB heads.SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-06-2003 05:09 PM
A well prepped cast 289 crank (cut straight and balanced right)will live at 9K RPM indefinatly. Stock 5/16 289 rods are good to 8K with moderate compression, quality bolts and good machining.By the way. MM uses a stock 1X oem FoMoCo crank, NOT an aftermarket one as some may have thought.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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V-8
Gearhead Posts: 112
From: Turkey/istanbul
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 12-06-2003 07:28 PM
i think you shoudnt turn more than 7000rpm with your stock crank,rods and also you have got nos!
i used 289 in 2000 14.5s 100mil.
289 rod bolts and main caps are thin.
first you must go to balance shop! buy a new forged steel parts.then turn what you want!!!
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-06-2003 10:20 PM
Oop's forgot to mention that the bottom end was balanced and I personally checked all clearences before I put it together so all should be good down there. Valve train should be good to go too.For reference if the motor for some reason didn't hold together it would be time for a 400cid Windsor . So it wouldn't the end of the world, but I didn't want to put together the recipy for certain failure. Thanks
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-06-2003 10:28 PM
Steve,With reguard to the 1/2" head bolts, if I had it to do again I would have the motor drilled and tapped for 1/2" head bolts, but it's too late for that. When I put the motor together I just never thought about it. I was thinking of using ARP studs, would this be ok you think??? [This message has been edited by Bloose (edited 12-06-2003).]
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 218
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-06-2003 10:32 PM
MM should know how why and what needs to be done to a 289 to live at RPM's A good balance and some strong rods should make it turn up to 9k as long as you don't mind shanging valvesprings often.------------------
67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS Crate engine 5 spd cable clutch13.39 on 205/70/14 BFG @104 mph Flowmasters X Pipe 4.11 9". Body shop Dec 03 03 Focus ZX3 BORLA exhaust Wings West spoiler (Arrest ME RED)
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 1678
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 12-06-2003 10:41 PM
Alex has been there and done that.Personally, my stock internals stood up to years of 7k rpm abuse.... and went through countless nitrous bottles in the process... in 200hp doses.  Those short stroke small blocks don't have a problem staying together when spun hard. Just be sure to get the best machine work that can be found, and use the best rod bolts, since they are just tiny, cute little 5/16" units. ARP Pro-Series gets the nod for me. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-06-2003 10:53 PM
AMEN! ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-07-2003 11:25 AM
Thanks guys,This is just what I needed to know. I suspected the little 289 could see some serious RPM but just wanted to make sure from people who would know . Now I have to start researching which cam I want and decide on the heads, oh ya, I have to pour on the OT too to get the money for the parts. Thanks again
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 1163
From: Lafayette, IN, USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-08-2003 12:56 PM
I have been wondering the same thing.
My engine as far as I know is bone stock internally. I dont know its history but it seems to run well and doesnt smoke, the guy that sold me the car said it had a rebuilt engine (it has a 66 engine and the car is a 68) but I dont know when or how it was rebuilt.Lets assume its stock. Can I drop the oil pan and simply install new rod bolts, or should I tear into it and check over everything and have it balanced etc... I was thinking of new heads too but wasnt thinking of pulling the motor out unless you guys think I would have too. ------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 287
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-08-2003 06:42 PM
Replacing rod bolts is something that needs to be done with the rods out of the motor as far as I know. Their pressed in and as far as I know take some care to take out and install. I had my rod bolts replaced when they reconned the rods, so I never did it. But like I said, I don't think doing them in the motor is wise even if possible. If the motor was rebuilt it's possible they were replaced at that time. Using the old ones is not a great idea anyway. But unfortunately I don't know of wny way to tell if they are new or what brand they are.Sorry,
B-loose
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-08-2003 07:12 PM
Aftermarket rod bolts require different torques and must be installed by a competent machine shop. The rods must be resized after bolt installation as the big end will change shape.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 1163
From: Lafayette, IN, USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-09-2003 10:59 AM
Thanks guys.
So with stock rod bolts what is safe? 6000? occasional trips to the track?I drive it now under 5000RPM but thats because it cant breath well enough to reach 6000 yet. ------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust http://www.geocities.com/ottouk_77/68mustang.htm
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