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Author	Topic: How happy are you with your summit cam scoop?
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-22-2003 08:08 PM It would be an improvement over stock and would work with stock valve springs most likely with a rocker arm adjustment kit, and isn't terrible expensive IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-22-2003 08:38 PM It was worth it, a very low dollar upgrade. The motor makes more low end power up to about 4500 rpm. I didn't have to change anything else. The idle is just like stock. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 7010 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000	posted 11-22-2003 11:59 PM It would have been better with some heads. SteveW IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-23-2003 01:01 PM quote: Originally posted by steve'66: It would have been better with some heads. SteveW You never stop do you I'm getting the darn heads, and a rebuilt motor to go with them. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-25-2003 12:16 AM these are the specs of the cam right? Advertised duration: 262 intake/272 exhaust Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 204 intake/214 exhaust .448 in. intake/.472 in. exhaust 112 degrees LSA think that's the only one summit makes for the 351W but i thought i'd re-check IP: Logged
thumpin cat Gearhead Posts: 317 From: Registered: Mar 2002	posted 11-25-2003 01:13 AM You can get the summit cam thats for the 221-302 the part number is Sum-3602. (292/302 degrees duration, hydraulic camshaft ) you just have to use the 221-302 firing order. IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-25-2003 12:37 PM quote: Originally posted by Dubz: these are the specs of the cam right? Advertised duration: 262 intake/272 exhaust Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 204 intake/214 exhaust .448 in. intake/.472 in. exhaust 112 degrees LSA think that's the only one summit makes for the 351W but i thought i'd re-check Thats the one I used, I also got their timing chain too. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 7010 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000	posted 11-25-2003 01:13 PM quote: Originally posted by Fastymz: You never stop do you I'm getting the darn heads, and a rebuilt motor to go with them. Ron, I would never pick on you. Freindly motivational techniques yes. SteveW IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-25-2003 01:25 PM quote: Originally posted by steve'66: Ron, I would never pick on you. Freindly motivational techniques yes. SteveW And it worked great. I've got all the funds together now. I'm just waiting for after the holidays to pull the motor. I can't wait to get started on it. I'm going with new RPM heads. I think you might agree with that choice. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 7010 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000	posted 11-25-2003 01:45 PM YEAH YOU! SteveW IP: Logged
johnmustang Gearhead Posts: 4933 From: British Columbia , Canada Registered: Nov 2001	posted 11-25-2003 02:00 PM quote: Originally posted by Fastymz: And it worked great. I've got all the funds together now. I'm just waiting for after the holidays to pull the motor. I can't wait to get started on it. I'm going with new RPM heads. I think you might agree with that choice. I guess you will now kick my a$$ with the new power plant . I am glad that you are now getting your stang done the way you want it. ------------------ JOHN 65 FASTBACK 2+2.....14.44 @ 107mph 1/4 87 TAURUS WAGON 03 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4 SHORT BOX Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association M&M #1710 65 FASTBACK 2003 F150 XLT SUPER CREW 4X4 IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-25-2003 02:56 PM quote: Originally posted by johnmustang: I guess you will now kick my a$$ with the new power plant . I am glad that you are now getting your stang done the way you want it. "Freindly motivational techniques" Me too John, I can't wait to see what it'll run with the new motor. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-25-2003 03:06 PM you running a tab on your car scoop?? if not any guess as to how much you've spent? IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-25-2003 03:42 PM quote: Originally posted by Dubz: you running a tab on your car scoop?? if not any guess as to how much you've spent? Yes I do have a tab, today I have about $3600 into the car. Thats everything from tires, to wires,trans ect,some items were a trade so i factor in the cost to buy them, and the purchase price of the car too. I have a limint of $8000 that I hope not to go over. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-25-2003 04:50 PM So far i have $4000 CDN in my car including the purchse, but i doubt it's in the low 17's as is, and it doesn't look half as good as your stang. (spent $1000 for seats which was a stupid stupid idea when the rest of the car isn't done, they are sitting in my room at the moment taunting me) IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-26-2003 01:04 AM Dubz when I first started on this site. Many of the members on here told me not to worry about the tab. To just have fun witn my car and do to it,what every makes me happy. And they were all right. I don't worry about the total cost anymore. Now if I have the money I'll get the parts I want for my 65. I know I'll never sell it, so who cares what the tab is. Don't worry about the seats you'll enjoy them on those long drives. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
streetstang67 Gearhead Posts: 365 From: SC, USA Registered: Nov 2002	posted 11-26-2003 06:45 PM I'm considering that cam or one like it...how much faster are you running at the strip? If you haven't gone yet, how much faster do you think it is? ------------------ '67 coupe: 289 bored .030 over, c-4 tranny Holley 600 carb, edelbrock performer intake, hooker comp headers, dual flowmaster exhuast IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-26-2003 07:54 PM plugging it into my dyno program i get about 250hp +/- 20hp at 4500 rpm sound about right? [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 11-29-2003).] IP: Logged
streetstang67 Gearhead Posts: 365 From: SC, USA Registered: Nov 2002	posted 11-26-2003 08:07 PM I was wondering how much different it is between stock cam and this mild cam.? IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-26-2003 08:24 PM any idea what the stock cam profile is?? don't have anything that tells me IP: Logged
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 727 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 11-26-2003 10:00 PM What I have found on for a stock 69 351W cam is I-.418"/E-.448" lift I-256/E-270 Duration I have never found any .050" lift duration numbers, just what appears to be advertised numbers. ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23 IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-26-2003 10:29 PM shows pretty much the same #'s i used the 0.050 numbers for the other cam so it's hard to tell really. the programs # are to be taken with a grain of salt i belive (probably a sq foot chunk of said salt) [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 11-26-2003).] IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-26-2003 10:31 PM maybe the summit cam won't help on your 69, they might not even help on my 74 :confused IP: Logged
Fastymz Moderator Posts: 13447 From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240 Registered: Apr 2001	posted 11-26-2003 11:08 PM My motor is a 69 351w. The cam did seem to help. The car has more low power that you can feel. I have not had it at the track since the change. I have raced my pops 88Gt. You I've raced since I first got my car. He used to beat me. When I had stock exh and a 2bl carb. Since I changed the exhst and gears and 4bl. I could take him easy. Now with the cam change it's not even close. I can take at any speed, his car is a 3.08 geared 5spd 88GT. Thats the messurement I have for now. ------------------ SCOOP 2.26 60'S 14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-26-2003 11:23 PM but by the butt-o-meter it seemed to be an improvement?? wonder where i could find the cam specs for my car (not in my 40lb chiltons 68-75 book) know the lift is 419/448 from NHRA's blueprint page, but don't know about any of the rest of it IP: Logged
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 727 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 11-27-2003 10:59 PM Dubz, I would think the cam in the 69 is the same spec as the cam in your 74 since the lift numbers are the same. I can't make a comment from experience on the difference between the stock cam and the summit cam, but the added lift and a little more duration should give some more power. I went from stock to a CC 275DEH with World Products heads and a lot of other adders all at once, made a BIG seat of the pants difference in my car. Still haven't figured out what I am going to do when put it back together this time. ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23 IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-28-2003 12:53 AM quote: Originally posted by thumpin cat: You can get the summit cam thats for the 221-302 the part number is Sum-3602. (292/302 degrees duration, hydraulic camshaft ) you just have to use the 221-302 firing order. that cam and all the others other than the one i first asked about have a 114 lsa, the one i asked about has a 112 which i thought would be better for performance IP: Logged
bluestreek Gearhead Posts: 1460 From: Athens,GA Registered: Jul 2001	posted 11-28-2003 11:06 AM The 114 lsa will give a wide power range and clean idle. The 112 will make a little more power in a narrower range and be easier to tune the advance curve. It just depends on what you want. If you wanted a lopey idle and have excellent midrange power you could drop down to about 109 LSA. One more idea.. You might consider using a 1.7 roller rocker on that cam. It would really wake it up and would still be safe for the stock motor. ------------------ 1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi. 11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)daily driver! DanH [This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 11-28-2003).] IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 11-28-2003 12:47 PM well if 114 is going to be a better wider power band if i went with the 218/228 .471/.471 with a 114lsa that would probably be better correct? it's 2,000 to 4,500 where as the other is 1,500 to 4,000 [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 11-28-2003).] IP: Logged
bluestreek Gearhead Posts: 1460 From: Athens,GA Registered: Jul 2001	posted 11-28-2003 02:49 PM Sounds like a nice performance street cam. I expect it would pull good up to 5000 rpms easily. ------------------ 1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi. 11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)daily driver! DanH [This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 11-28-2003).] IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-01-2003 02:04 AM The first cam i had asked about has the exact same specs as Edelbrocks Performer Plus Cam. Same lift, same 0.050" durations and same lsa. And the small cam with headers and a performer intake can hit 320+ according to thier dyno results(which is good enough for me) Which do you think would be the best?? The smaller, the bigger, or it won't make much difference. IP: Logged
bluestreek Gearhead Posts: 1460 From: Athens,GA Registered: Jul 2001	posted 12-01-2003 02:28 PM The bigger cam isn't really all that big. I like the Performer cam for a stock truck or an automatic car with stock convertor and 3.00 gears, but I would use your 2nd choice on a car with around 3.50 gears and a stick shift or mild stall convertor. You have to make the call. There's about 400 rpms and 15-20HP to be gained with the bigger cam. ------------------ 1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank, rods and girdle, TFS alum. heads, Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 268 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi. 11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)daily driver! DanH IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-01-2003 04:07 PM stock converter, big intake, and a 3.55 rear gear IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-06-2003 08:34 PM would my compression ratio of 8:1 be too low for this cam planning on getting the heads milled 0.025" - 0.030" to bump cr up, but even then would that be enough? IP: Logged
bluestreek Gearhead Posts: 1460 From: Athens,GA Registered: Jul 2001	posted 12-06-2003 10:36 PM Mill the heads and you'll be fine. Using Moneymakers words.. "that's a peewee cam". IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 10:40 AM Dubz i think comp cams dual energy best for you.dont forget new cam=new lifters,timing chain,springs... your comp ratio low for use big cams. what is your heads,intake,carb,converter...? [This message has been edited by V-8 (edited 12-07-2003).] IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 01:46 PM quote: Originally posted by V-8: Dubz i think comp cams dual energy best for you.dont forget new cam=new lifters,timing chain,springs... your comp ratio low for use big cams. what is your heads,intake,carb,converter...? [This message has been edited by V-8 (edited 12-07-2003).] I know my compression is too low for a big cam, that's why i asked about this one. I have stock 74 heads (will be milled by the time of install 0.020" - 0.030") Edelbrock Air-gap Intake, 670cfm Holley, and stock converter) The reason why i'm going with a summit cam is because they don't cost much, and i wasn't looking at spending $400 bucks to do everything (lifters are included with the summit cam and both together cost $80) and comp won't warranty thier cam unelss you put in new springs (and when this cam is so small i shouldn't need to spend money to change the springs) Either of these cams is pretty small, so i figured both would be fine with about 8.5 compression. This is a low buck buildup, as the rest of my money is going towards other things that are more important. IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 01:50 PM can you give summit's cam spects. what is the stock springs lift limit? [This message has been edited by V-8 (edited 12-07-2003).] IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 02:14 PM Bigger quote: Originally posted by Dubz: 218/228 .471/.471 with a 114lsa it's 2,000 to 4,500 and the smaller quote: Originally posted by Dubz: Duration at .050 : 204/214 .448 /.472 112 degrees LSA 1,500 to 4,000 not sure about the springs lift limit as it's not in my book, but they are [email protected] and have an installed height of 1 25/32 (not sure if any of that will help) i think stock lift is .418/.448 IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 02:23 PM Duration at .050 : 204/214 .448 /.472 112 degrees LSA 1,500 to 4,000 i think you should go with this cam. but new springs maybe require IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 02:25 PM mind if i ask your reasoning? bluestreek suggested the other, so just wondering why you would suggest the smaller. If i have to replace the springs i may as well go with the bigger. [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-07-2003).] IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 02:38 PM Because your comp ratio too low for use bigger cam and your converter stock. And bigger cam cant work good with low cr. IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 02:47 PM quote: Originally posted by V-8: Because your comp ratio too low for use bigger cam and your converter stock. And bigger cam cant work good with low cr. The bigger cam is still a small cam so i thought the cr ratio should be fine. A comp cams 270H will work with a stock converter, it has more lift, and more duration than either cam.(224/224 .500/.500) and it does not require 9:1 compression, only the larger 280H does (230/230 .512/.512) IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 02:54 PM what is your gear ratio and tire dia? car weight? IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 02:57 PM quote: Originally posted by V-8: what is your gear ratio and tire dia? car weight? were you aware that this is for a 351W? don't think i mentioned that. 3.56 rear gear wide ratio trans gears on the order list 26" tall tires car weight is around 3600lbs IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 03:12 PM oopss.i supposed it 302,sorry. but you cant take the real power of the big cam, without increasing the cr. IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 03:19 PM quote: Originally posted by V-8: oopss.i supposed it 302,sorry. but you cant take the real power of the big cam, without increasing the cr. I'd like to go with higher cr by doing a whole rebuild but money is tight at the moment IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 03:27 PM ok Dubz,when you have got enough money we will make a good combination for your 351w. Wait and drive your car with stock cam. IP: Logged
V-8 Gearhead Posts: 198 From: Turkey/Istanbul Registered: Dec 2003	posted 12-07-2003 03:30 PM Dubz.Any pictures of your car? IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 03:49 PM nope, all i have is an old engine shot, and it's huge click here for picture I found i do not need springs, that 0.501" will still not have coil bind, so you think i should wait for the cam?? It's gonna be probably a couple years before i get back into engine work and the boost in performance over stock would be nice this is my planned setup (for now) 393 Stroker with forged crank and pistons 9.5:1 compression 280S or larger cam mild converter ARF 185's MSD digital 6plus (may get this in not too distant future) 75-100hp nitrous plate kit But before i get back into engine stuff i am re-doing the whole interior, replacing most of the cars suspension, upgrading brakes, custom body work, paint job, bigger sway bars, rear end upgrades (i have 28 spline open carrier), transmission upgrades to reduce powerloss, ect. ------------------ 1974 Gran Torino 351W with rpm air gap intake, Holley 670 carb, 1" 4 hole spacer Planned : Summit cam, cheap headers, milling cylinder heads, steel shim head gaskets My Page [This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-07-2003).] IP: Logged
RonnieT Gearhead Posts: 727 From: Port Allen, La. 70767 Registered: Jun 99	posted 12-07-2003 10:20 PM Dubz, You may need to rethink your order of work on your car some. I would get the engine ready and install it before I painted the car, or at least at the same time. It would be a shame to damage a fresh paint job while installing the new drivetrain. When you go to paint the car pull the engine, clean and paint the engine bay while you block is out at the shop, put in the new drivetrain, and then paint the car. That is the way I like to do it anyway. ------------------ Ronnie 69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time! 70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker" Mustangs and More Member #23 IP: Logged
Dubz Gearhead Posts: 906 From: Manitoba Canada Registered: Oct 2002	posted 12-07-2003 10:29 PM I was thinking same time if i could save up enough $$. But not sure if i want to drive an unpainted car for that long(right now it looks as if i drove it off the junkyard), and i know the engine will never be "done" just only good for a while I was quoted 3k to paint the car, may try myself since i have a garage and a 60gal compressor and many friends who said they would paint it for me for less. And i'm going with Jet black (color change), no metallics or anything so i'd be able to touch up scratches and stuff if they did happen. ------------------ 1974 Gran Torino 351W with rpm air gap intake, Holley 670 carb, 1" 4 hole spacer Planned : Summit cam, cheap headers, milling cylinder heads, steel shim head gaskets My Page IP: Logged

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