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Author
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Topic: It broke
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-14-2003 12:40 PM
   
Well, yesterday my trans broke on the first pass. I am positive it is the Belleville spring that broke again. That is the third time I have broken that spring. I am positive it is that, because it is acting exactly the same as it did the previous times it broke. I only managed to get 80 passes out of it this time.  It's times like these I serioulsy consider putting a 'glide in the car. KK's father thinks the pump pressure is too high and that's the mian contributing factor to it breaking. I'm going to make some phone calls tomorrow and see what a couple of transmissions builders recommend I do. Anyways, to at least get my entry points, I ran the '70 in Top (not an easy task as I haven't footbraked a car in around 6 or 7 years.) I did get lucky and won first round (and it was all luck as the other car tree'd me badly, but broke out getting around me.) I lost second round although I tree'd the other guy (I broke out.) I at least managed to salvage a couple of points so it wasn't a total loss.
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67357C
Gearhead Posts: 475
From: Newcastle, WA.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-14-2003 12:57 PM
Kid, don't take this the wrong way, but I thought you said when we were discussing the differences betwen the C6 & C4, that you raced that C4 constantly without any trouble, now you are admitting that the thing does break on occasion. What's up? quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Well, yesterday my trans broke on the first pass. I am positive it is the Belleville spring that broke again. That is the third time I have broken that spring. I am positive it is that, because it is acting exactly the same as it did the previous times it broke. I only managed to get 80 passes out of it this time. It's times like these I serioulsy consider putting a 'glide in the car. KK's father thinks the pump pressure is too high and that's the mian contributing factor to it breaking. I'm going to make some phone calls tomorrow and see what a couple of transmissions builders recommend I do. Anyways, to at least get my entry points, I ran the '70 in Top (not an easy task as I haven't footbraked a car in around 6 or 7 years.) I did get lucky and won first round (and it was all luck as the other car tree'd me badly, but broke out getting around me.) I lost second round although I tree'd the other guy (I broke out.) I at least managed to salvage a couple of points so it wasn't a total loss.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-14-2003 01:18 PM
The only thing I have ever broke is that darned $2 Belleville spring. And up until last Thanksgiving (the last time it had broke), I had only broke it once. I figured running a trans 8 years and only having parts failure twice was a pretty good ratio especially considering I was putting over 200 passes a year on it. But this last time, it only lasted 80 passes before it broke. That makes me question everythign, form the way we put it together, to....well, everything since it was lasting longer than that before. Alex said they replace the Belleville spring in his everytime they have it apart. That's how they keep his from breaking.
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2751
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-14-2003 02:42 PM
How often does Alex have his apart? JS
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-14-2003 03:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jsracingbbf:
How often does Alex have his apart? JS
I honestly don't know. But I am fairly confident it is a lot more frequently than mine comes apart.
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thumpin cat
Gearhead Posts: 458
From: Santa Barbara, California
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-14-2003 07:54 PM
Rebuilding transmissions is easy, but its just a PITA.
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fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
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posted 09-14-2003 09:28 PM
Kid, that really bites, why is it some of the smallest parts cause the biggest problems? wish i had the answer!!! my curiosity is peaked now,please keep us updated as to the problem and solution for it. thanks. ------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2751
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-14-2003 10:27 PM
LENCO!  only draw back is MEGA BUCKS  to get one! JS
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NM Dave
Journeyman Posts: 52
From: Santa Fe, NM USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 09-14-2003 11:10 PM
Kid try calling the people at Pro-trans. thay do one of the best auto's for drag racing.
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Butch Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 624
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-15-2003 12:01 AM
I'm sorry to hear that KV, that sucks.------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.231
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-15-2003 11:29 AM
I have called 2 companies so far this morning. One said it was probably clutch clearances were too loose, or, the drum has a flaw in it. I thanked them for thier time and called a different company and told them the same thing I told the first one. He told me that without looking at it, he would say it was either clutch clearances too loose allowing the spring to over-extend, or the pump pressure is too high. I was told on another site to tighten the clutch clearances up to .040, so that fits in with what both of those companies told me.
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Buster
Gearhead Posts: 1437
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002
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posted 09-15-2003 09:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 67357C:
Kid, don't take this the wrong way, but I thought you said when we were discussing the differences betwen the C6 & C4, that you raced that C4 constantly without any trouble, now you are admitting that the thing does break on occasion. What's up?
WoW, I don't care what the part is on any race car it will fail sooner or later. Having little to no trouble doesn't mean I will never break.... Every part has a life span and life spans can be shortened do to uncontrollable circumstances. Just look at the Space Shuttle, a simple O?ring caused it to self-destruct. Simple fix, but that doesn?t mean that the Solid Rocket Boosters need to be changed out for something else. Might be a good idea to make some kinda reply at this point.
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67357C
Gearhead Posts: 475
From: Newcastle, WA.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-15-2003 09:49 PM
You obviously misunderstood the conversation. I was questioning kid on his C4. The conversation goes back to the debate on which is stronger, a C4 or C6. quote:
Originally posted by Buster:
WoW, I don't care what the part is on any race car it will fail sooner or later. Having little to no trouble doesn't mean I will never break.... Every part has a life span and life spans can be shortened do to uncontrollable circumstances. Just look at the Space Shuttle, a simple O?ring caused it to self-destruct. Simple fix, but that doesn?t mean that the Solid Rocket Boosters need to be changed out for something else. Might be a good idea to make some kinda reply at this point.
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 390
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 09-16-2003 05:48 PM
If you want stronger, the C-6 will probably win out, but I'm sure it has it's own weak points. The cost of the strength is going to be a car that is not as quick, because to get that strength parts are made bigger and thicker which soaks up HP! Now if you build up a C-4 with higher quality and stronger parts, you get the best of both worlds.
Roger
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fastford34
Gearhead Posts: 836
From: penna
Registered: May 2002
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posted 09-16-2003 10:25 PM
thanks for the feed back KV. i could not think of a reason why that spring would break,this is the 1st time i heard of 1 of those failing (i`m no trans specialist,thats for sure!). again,thanks,------------------
34 coupe powered by 351 c 4v
keith
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Mario428
Journeyman Posts: 76
From: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 09-17-2003 06:46 AM
Kid have you ever checked your line pressure, if so how high is it? My much played with manual valve body gives me 200-220 PSI and I have never broken a belleville spring. Pressure higher than that get me worring about the 2nd gear servo popping out of the case. I disabled my reverse boost so I can put the car in reverse when cold.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-17-2003 07:50 AM
I have never checked it, but the shop that used to rebuild it had a way of checking it wiht it out of the car. They said it was over 200, but I don't know how far over it is. The guy who ran the shop said he didn't like seeing that much line pressure, but figured the originall builders of the trans must have done it for a reason so he left it alone. I don'r know much about auto transmissions. I do know that mine has a billet double O ring servo cover on the passenger side.
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Mario428
Journeyman Posts: 76
From: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 09-17-2003 12:59 PM
See if you can get your hands on a 300 PSI gauge, pressure port is right in front of the intermediate band adjuster.
Billet servo would have no problem with up to 250 PSI. Less line pressure means less clamping force on clutches and slower shifts which will kill direct clutches in short order with your HP.
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ciscokid
Gearhead Posts: 129
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 09-17-2003 01:31 PM
Kid, Those trans shops are right. You can snug up the clutch pack clearance on the forward clutch to keep the belleville spring from over-flexing. It won't hurt anything since that clutch is engaged in all three forward gears. The same in not true of the high gear clutch where having a tight pack will greatly increase drag in first and second. I don't think that high line pressure has anything to do with it. Once the clutch is engaged, the pack is virtually a solid mass and you can squeeze it as tight as you want and it is not going to compress any more. But if the clearance is loose, then the piston has to move a long way and the spring has to flex more than it is designed for, and that can break it. 0.040" is not too tight for the forward clutch regardless of the number of frictions.Good luck.
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