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Author Topic:   Solid vs Roller
Kellxr7
Gearhead

Posts: 646
From: Canada
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-08-2003 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kellxr7   Click Here to Email Kellxr7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In building a 392W What would be the best to go with? A solid or roller cam? Are there more options for cams if its solid? (Plus I am assuming it would be cheaper being I would use a heavier OLD block & wouldnt have to retrofit lifters. Or should I get solid rollers? What are your opinions?

[This message has been edited by Kellxr7 (edited 08-08-2003).]

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indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 2516
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 08-08-2003 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil   Click Here to Email indyphil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Im not the valvetrain expert on here, but the question you ask is a little odd.
You can have a solid roller cam if you like, its not a Vs argument. You can have solid or hyraulic, roller or flat

hydraulic lifters (either roller lifters like the newer designs or flat tappet like the 289) have upper rev range limitations but work fine on most street engines. Nice and quiet.

Solid lifters are used where high RPM's were seen, but had the disadvantage of needing lots of fine tuning and adjustments and make more noise, some people like the noise .

Roller lifters have the advantage over flat designs of being able to withstand higher lifts for equal durations so they work very well on street cars with lower RPMS, they also have less friction that flat designs.
The problem with rollers (hyrdaulic or solid) is that they are heavier and therefore at extreme RPMS are harder to control.

These are generalisations and there are exceptions (like "bleed down" hydraulic lifters for high RPMS). I am not the oracle of cam/lifter selection by any means, and the most important thing to get right is the profile of the lobes. Match that to your combo and you wont be upset. Going to Solid lifters is usually a choice based on how often you like to pull the valve covers and fine tune your lash, and whether you like the noise. By themselves they wont make more power but they ENABLE higher revving combinations.

So the question is what kind of combo are you putting together? Mild or wild?

Phil

------------------
'68 coupe 289 C code
66 heads, edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, dual exhaust

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Kellxr7
Gearhead

Posts: 646
From: Canada
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-08-2003 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kellxr7   Click Here to Email Kellxr7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the clarification, Im (as you saw) No expert on this , plus I got my sh** all mixed up, I got it now, thanks.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9104
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-08-2003 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The solid roller is a great way to "fly".

SteveW

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-08-2003 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SteveW is right!
One thing that wasn't mentioned is the lobe profiles of the different cams. The roller profile allows a lot better average valve lift and quicker, more precise, opening and closing ramps than flat tappets. This translates into more power and efficiency throughout the entire rpm range of the cam. That's why automakers started using roller cams over a decade ago. Hydraulic rollers are the hot ticket for a streetable rpm range (6000 rpms), and Solid rollers are for someone that's ready to take the next step up. Solids need a little more attention to maintenance and detail than hydraulics and give off a distinctive buzzing/ticking sound, but they will outpower and out rev anything else in it's class!

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)full street trim!
DanH

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9104
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-09-2003 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And,

This occasional valve lash check may uncover a real problem, like valves sinking into the heads. If everything is good the valves should stay adusted properly, but by checking them periodicaly you will find other problems that hydraulic lifters would cover up. Solid lifters are the only way to go, solid rollers are the bestestest.

SteveW

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1269
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-09-2003 04:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Say your converting a 72 302 because when you tore it down you found it to be brand new and the roller block you bought to rebuild had a crack.

What part numbers would you use to convert the 72 to say a solid roller? Or hydraulic roller?

Can you use solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam? I know you can't switch the two on a flat tappet cam but why not on a roller cam?

I want to use solid roller lifters but use a pretty mild cam. Unfortunatly Solid roller cams don't come in mild grinds.

P.S. Before you ask why use a mild cam with solid rollers? I have my reasons

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-09-2003 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can have a solid roller custom ground to your specs. There's no conversion necessary if you use link bar lifters. They cost around $300-$600 dollars a set depending on brand and design and are a simple drop-in and can be used over and over on more than one cam.

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)full street trim!
DanH

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6220
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08-10-2003 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
... solid rollers are the bestestest.

SteveW


Yep, if you plan on turning 8500+ rpm. I still think for most applications a solid flat tappet camshaft will make within 10 hp of the solid roller. And, it doesn't have all the extra expense that goes along with building a roller motor, AND there's alot less chance of the pin in the front of the cam failing destroying everything. If I didn't already have all the stuff to put a solid roller back in my racemotor after the last pin failure, I wouldn't have done it. Especially considering the solid flat tappet cam ran EXACTLY the same ET as the solid roller did (last pass with the solid roller was 6.43 @ 106 mph, first pass with the solid flat tappet was 6.43 @ 106 mph).

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-10-2003 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KV, I think you're right. If I had to buy everything new I would have used a solid flat grind, and probably made the same power. They're a no-brainer and easy on the wallet too. The only draw-back would be the dreaded break-in!

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
11.86 @ 116 mph (7.62 @ 93 mph)full street trim!
DanH

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9104
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-10-2003 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The fact that you don't have to break-in a solid roller is almost worth the extra money. Especially with spring changes after break-in.

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6220
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08-10-2003 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
The fact that you don't have to break-in a solid roller is almost worth the extra money. Especially with spring changes after break-in.

SteveW


A couple of downfalls are, the lifters really should be rebuilt after 2 seasons to keep the fragile needle bearings from going to h*ll (had that happen once, wasn't pretty), and the valve springs need replaced every 2 seasons just like on a flat tappet cam (at least on a motor that see's as much or more rpm than mine), but they cost over $100 more per set.

I must be lucky, so far I have not had any problems breaking in a flat tappet cam.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9104
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-10-2003 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Rob,

I still "luv you man" But you are cranky lately. LOL

Flat tappet solid cams went fast way before the roller lifter was even thought of.

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6220
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08-10-2003 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
... But you are cranky lately. LOL



I am !?!?!?


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