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Author
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Topic: Toploader interchangability question
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 07-06-2003 10:35 PM
   
I may have a line on a toploader out of a '68 428 CJ Mustang  It's a long story, but I believe the info to be true concidering my source. My question is, with the correct crossmember & mount, can I drop this transmission right into my coupe? Or do the big block transmissions have a larger input/output shafts? If so, would a disc and yoke be all I need? How about overall length? ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 07-06-2003 11:25 PM
I've answered part of my own question  Quoted from www.4speedtoploaders.com, there's two possible ID's for '68 428s, both are 31 spline outputs and both are close ratio. From the site: "A 1-1/16" input shaft was used in motors from the 200 c.i. to the 390 c.i. while the 427, 428 and 429 were available only with close ratio gears."... dosen't mention a larger input for the big block transmissions though  "The AC Cobra with 427 and 428, all Mustangs, Falcons, Mavericks, Cougars, 1966-67 Fairlanes and Comets use 24" transmissions" ...trans mount locations identical? ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html [This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 07-06-2003).]
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-07-2003 12:20 AM
The big block transmissions have a shorter pilot shaft (the little 'tit' that sticks into the the pilot bushing) and will not fully engage the bushing when placed behind a small block.So, no. Regardless of the input diameter, it will not work behind your small block without having the input shaft changed... and to do that, the whole transmission has to be taken apart. Good Luck ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1572
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-07-2003 02:08 AM
In addition to the shorter input snout, the 427,428&429 Toploaders with the larger 1 3/8" input also require a larger throw out fork & TO bearing, due to the larger diameter F bearing retainer. Plus, the 2.32 low gear used in the close ratio toploaders is far from ideal, especially behind a small block. If you currently have a small input toploader with the 2.78 low gear wide ratio, I think the close ratio box would be a huge step backwards.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. soon to be under the index!
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 07-07-2003 09:18 AM
Ok, that tells me alot. Thanks guys  I may have the chance to grab this trans for a song  Any idea on it's worth? I may try to turn a buck on this deal  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-07-2003 11:45 AM
FYI, the 'big block' toploader's pilot shaft 'tit' measures around 3/4" long. (this included the small input '390' units that look almost like small block transmissions. The small block pilot shafts are a little over an inch long.Happy Shopping! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1572
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-08-2003 01:07 AM
The last 428CJ Mustang toploader I sold went for $800.00, it was over 10 years ago that I sold it. I was a good, fresh unit, with no shifter. The longer Torino & big car trans go for a fair bit less.(normally)------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. soon to be under the index!
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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Riley
Journeyman Posts: 72
From: Jefferson City, MO, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-10-2003 02:04 PM
A 65-66 Mustang uses a different tailhousing (Nos. C4ZR or C4DR) than a 68 Mustang. The early Mustang shifter location is different and the the brace mounting point is different. You can see pictures of those at David Kee's site. He might trade tail housings for a fee.
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64 TBOLT
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Newbury NH
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 07-13-2003 03:11 PM
i think FPP makes a stepped pilot bushing to use the FE toploader to a small block.I had one made for my 260 with a FE toplaader------------------
64 Fairlane 460/C5
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 07-13-2003 03:51 PM
I tried one of those... and junked a perfectly mint 390 wide ratio toploader in the process. Yes, I got it from FPP..... years ago.Since the load is applied OUTSIDE where the bearing is supported by the crank, it eventually works loose. Don't do it. ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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64 TBOLT
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Newbury NH
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 07-13-2003 07:46 PM
the one i had made was made from steel with a brass insert.Works great and still have it
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