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Author
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Topic: 351 Combo-Carb and Cam suggestion
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orangemach1
Journeyman Posts: 41
From: Southgate, MI
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-22-2003 12:37 PM
   
Guys, I have a 351C stroked to a 377 with about 10:1 compression. Will be running a Weiand X-Cellerator Intake and Crane 230-234 @.050 dur and 536/545 lift cam. 4V Heads, Headers and MSD6 and Billet Distributor.I am looking to get a recomendation on a Carb and Cam for the Motor, I already have someone reccomend the BIGS 950 Holley HP. Comp cams suggested a roller cam setup with about 612/612 lift and 244/244 @ .050 dur,110 lobes. I am also thinking about rebuilding the bottom end eventually to a 396 back to the original 11:1 compression. What Carb and Cam do you guys think would be a good compbo? I would like to get a combo that could be used just as well with a 396 11:1 compression, if possible. Thanks, Guys ------------------
Brian, 1970 Mach 1, 377C
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Tbird
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-22-2003 02:30 PM
My thoughts are that Clevelands are like 429/460's, they love lots of carburetion. Check with your buddies to see if they have any carbs like an 800dp or 850dp and see how well they perform before buying one.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-22-2003 03:19 PM
The 950HP will work better than an 850. I know, I tried it. The 950 is more designed for big inch motor that pull a strong booster signal. A cleveland generally wont. As for the rest of your questions, what is the primary purpose of the car? Is it a street/strip car, or a race only car? Clevelands love duration, but if it's a street car, that will be a problem. By the way,
Welcome to M&M.  I love 69-70 fastbacks, especially when they have clevelands in them.  ------------------
Rob Hetzler
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, best 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.18 @ 110.4 1/8
'70 mustang, soon to be 351W powered
'93 F150 Lightning 15.33 @ 87 mph, completely stock with 173k miles
'60 Falcon wagon project car
'99 Pro Et track champion
'00 Mod ET R-up (with new car) My Photo Page
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jim1320
Gearhead Posts: 133
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 05-22-2003 05:31 PM
I running a 750 hp carb work good like to try a 950 or 1050 but i later. cam ?? my cam is roller cm 256 to 266 @ 59 and 620 lift. i running about 12 to 1 ?? very happy my moter is 393 stroker cleveland. best tiome 10.99 with exhaust 3 inch 4.56 rear. car 3550 lb with me in it good luck jim1320
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1048
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 05-22-2003 05:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jim1320:
I running a 750 hp carb work good like to try a 950 or 1050 but i later. cam ?? my cam is roller cm 256 to 266 @ 59 and 620 lift. i running about 12 to 1 ?? very happy my moter is 393 stroker cleveland. best tiome 10.99 with exhaust 3 inch 4.56 rear. car 3550 lb with me in it good luck jim1320
I have no idea what i just read
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scottford351
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-22-2003 09:57 PM
if you are using the iron 4v heads I woul advise 8-10 degrees duration on the exhaust.------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44
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MrXerox
Gearhead Posts: 332
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 12:42 AM
Something with around the 244ish duration will work well for you. If you go much more than that, it will push your power band up higher and that X-Cellerator will choke you out. I know that hood/shaker functionality is a factor for you so you must decide what is more important to you. There is a guy named Ray on here that runs a 408C in a 70 with that solid roller 244 @ .050 .623/.623 in a 4spd car and he seems to be pleased with it. I think he runs a torker intake, You might ask him about his shaker setup...I have this same cam in my car and if I had to do it all over again I would have saved the extra roller money and just went for a solid flat tappet with around the same specs. Again, NOTHING comes close to the performance of a 950HP on a Cleveland. Good Luck!
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orangemach1
Journeyman Posts: 41
From: Southgate, MI
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-23-2003 09:22 AM
Kid Vishus,This will be a street/stip car. I did contact BIGS and they are in the process of looking over my engine specs but they initially said that either a 750 Stage 5 or a 950 Stage 5 should work for me. They are taking all my specs to figure it out right now. Let me know what you think about the CAM, Thanks for the welcome, great site!! MrXerox, Thanks for the added info, I know what your saying about the roller $$, about double the price of a flat tappet. Crane has that roller you spoke about but its a mechanical roller. Is mechanical same as solid? All ...What is the benefits of a roller, besides less friction? Is it worth it?? Ray ... are you out there, I am curious to hear of your application, I am fighting a height restriction because I want to keep my shaker scoop. ------------------
Brian, 1970 Mach 1, 377C
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 09:49 AM
About cams. A couple of years back I was running a solid roller in my racecar. I sheared the pin in the front of the camshaft destroying a lot of good parts. Since I couldn't afford to replace all the roller parts, I went with a solid flat tappet cam that was very close in specs to the roller I was running. The car ran exactly the same ET. The 396 is going to want more camshaft then the 377. For the 377 I would run a camshaft around 245255 @ .050, and about 10* bigger overall for the 396. I would also try and have them both on a 108 center. But I tend to overcam my street motors. The last motor I built for my street car had a solid cam that was 256/266 @ .050. If it owuld have actually ended up on the street instead of in my racecar, I might be able to form an honest opinion about it.
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MrXerox
Gearhead Posts: 332
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 01:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
The last motor I built for my street car had a solid cam that was 256/266 @ .050. If it owuld have actually ended up on the street instead of in my racecar, I might be able to form an honest opinion about it.
The lines between street and race for Kid are VERY blurred! P.S. Get the 950, If my 359ci motor likes it better than a 750, I would assume more cubes would be even happier. Also, mechanical is the same as solid and you will want a solid lifter cam in that motor. There is a term for people on this board that use juice tappet cams and I dont think you would like it!
[This message has been edited by MrXerox (edited 05-23-2003).]
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 01:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MrXerox:
The lines between street and race for Kid are VERY blurred!
That motor had 10.4-1 compression and ran 10.80's in my racecar with 2v heads. Neil's right, I have a loose definition of "streetable". 
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orangemach1
Journeyman Posts: 41
From: Southgate, MI
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-23-2003 05:01 PM
I think I will get the 950HP and run that for now until I decide whether to stroke the bottom end more or not (to do the cam).I found a cam though, Crane that is a solid lifter with 260/260 with 640 lift and 110 lobes, is this too big or should I go one lower with a 248/248 with 605/605 lift and 110 lobes. Is it very important to get lobes at 108 or would this choice be fine. Unfortunately, I know what the duration and lift means, but I don't know what the duration, lift and lobe separation actually does for the performance.  I would be running the 396ci stroker if I do the cam. I have flat top pistons right now with very little clearance, so if I change the pistons it's all going to change. Let me know what you guys think about these cams. ------------------
Brian, 1970 Mach 1, 377C, Shaker, 4-Speed
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MrXerox
Gearhead Posts: 332
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 06:18 PM
Again, If you go with more duration it is going to push your powerband past the point that the X-Cellerator is able to breathe so it will all be for not. I think 260 would work well with 396ci and I personally like the 110 lobes because it helps to bleed off some of the cylinder pressure so that I can still run pump gas but then again, with that much duration 108 might be able to as well...? Bottom line, if you are wanting to produce as much power as it sounds like you are wanting to, you are going to have to fabricate some way on your own to keep the shaker in the picture because the torker or strip dominator is the only way to make big power on a Cleveland.
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MrWesson22
Gearhead Posts: 1212
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 07:29 PM
My $.02. Get the cam specs you exactly want, and get a custom grind from Comp Cams. It's the same price as a regular. They may not have the proper lobes to get exactly what you want, but they'll get damn close. I'm sure Alex could order one for you and could work with you on the specs.
------------------
Neal 69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/4sp
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/MrWesson22.html
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orangemach1
Journeyman Posts: 41
From: Southgate, MI
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-24-2003 03:46 PM
MrXerox,I understand about the duration, I just wanted to find out what should be my max duration with the X-Cellerator for a 396. The only way I can see to fit the Stip Dom or the Torker is to mill off some from the carb pad and tap the carb holes deeper. So I think I will go with the X-Cellerator, Bigs 950HP with my 377. If I like the way that runs then I will try to upgrade the bottom end to the new cam and 396ci. So, the Comp Cam 260/260 with 640 lift and 108 lobes seems to be the choice. Alex, Do you have any opinion on the CAM of choice here? Any changes you would make? Can I get this custom grind through you or can I just order it myself? Thanks,
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scottford351
Journeyman Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 05-26-2003 11:47 PM
I have a new Crane 260 @ .050 with.639 lift PN# f-260/3694-6 If your interested Ill take 100.00. I gave like 170 for it,changed my mind and went roller.------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44
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