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Author Topic:   cam is eating dist gears
MattN
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: Mattoon, IL.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-25-2003 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MattN   Click Here to Email MattN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My dad has a new comp cams xr292r street roller cam (-8). Before we installed we called comp cams and they said to use a cast gear. The wear pattern looks good, the cam endplay is .003. The comp cams install booklet says endplay should be .004-.010". Dad called comp cams and one guy said .008-.012 endplay. Two different guys said the endplay we had was ok, but they also said to use cast gears. Another guy said cast gears suck and to use a MSD or Fordmotorsport steel gear. We are also using a HV oil pump. The dist is a remanufactured NAPA that feels good and tight. So far it has ate two different cast gears in very little run time. We now have a FRPP steel gear, but want some "expert advice" before we proceed. The cam gear looks ok the best I can tell, a little wear on the edges, but no gouges or chips. Thanks.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 04-25-2003 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm... I wonder if this is related to what Dan was mentioning:

quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
Steve Grossen had a lot of trouble with Comp. He kept eating distributor and cam gears on his 351W with a Comp 280H. Comp replaced the cam several times before bothering to check the cam gears. Seems they had a batch of cores with improperly machined gears. I had a similar problem with a Lunati, another friend had some problems with Crower etc. It probably gets back to the fact that there are only a handful of people that make the cam cores and the fact that the cam companies only do statistical sampling. The worst part of dealing with cam companies are the tech lines. Call them three different times and get three completely different answers.

Dan Jones


------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-25-2003 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
errrr uhhhhh, dont you always use a steel or bronze gear on a roller cam??

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-25-2003 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does this specific cam have a cast iron distributer gear pressed onto it? Some solid rollers (mostly 'street') have these to keep from having to run the 'disposable' bronze gears.

I know steel gears have been used with hydraulic rollers, but am not all that certain if they are compatible with steel solid roller cams.

Maybe someone has more information.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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MattN
Journeyman

Posts: 49
From: Mattoon, IL.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-25-2003 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MattN   Click Here to Email MattN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This cam is supposed to be the one with the cast dist gear compatable cam gear on it. The one that says bronze gear not necessary. I originally wondered about the steel or cast gear and called comp to see for sure before I put it in. We were told the cast gear would be fine. We have been told different things everytime we call comp. 35-773-8 is the part#.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-25-2003 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you checked the depth of the distribtor gear yet? For a 351w it should be 3.996-4.005 from the flange that hits the top of the block to the bottom of the distributor gear. I'm using a CompCams bronze gear w/o excessive wear. If the depth is wrong the gears won't mesh properly.

SteveW

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-25-2003 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey steve, what is the measurment for a 1990 model 302?? thanks

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-25-2003 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

I only know the 351w because the Comp bronze gear came with a warning to check it. Maybe it's the same.

SteveW

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 495
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-25-2003 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>Hmmm... I wonder if this is related to what Dan was mentioning:

Possibly but it can also be due to inadequate lubrication, improper
end play and/or gear palcement, and incompatible materials. Comp
lists their hydraulic roller cams and certain street solid roller
profiles as being compatible with OEM cast iron cam gears. I called
Comp several time to discuss this. A couple of their techs obviously
had no clue but on the third try the tech I spoke with (Dennis) had
a consistent story. He said their -8 part number hydraulic and street
roller cam cores are austempered ductile iron. A surface treatment
hardens the cam lobes so they can run a roller lifter. He also said
either a cast iron or cast steel distributor gear is compatible with
the -8 cores to run with the cam. Not compatible are machined steel
gears like the Crane 351C part which is made of 8620 steel, the same
as a solid roller gear. He said the OEM and Ford Motorsport steel
gears are a cast steel and would work fine with their street rollers
but not their race rollers. Unfortunaely, Ford doesn't make one for
a 351C. Solid roller cams are usually ground on 8620 billet cores
and require bronze distributor gears. It may be possible to use a
machined steel gear like the one Crane makes (though Mike Trusty had
trouble with his) but not an OEM cast steel gear.

Jim Sams was telling me about a guy on the 351C forum that was also
eating gears and finally solved it with a special Mallory gear.
Mallory lists two replacement gears. The more expensive gear is
aluminum/bronze for use with steel roller cams. The cheaper one is
is listed as machined from "alloy steel", heat treated to give the
proper hardness when used with "proferal billet camshafts". The
phone tech claims the "alloy steel" is the one to use with cast iron
flat tappet cams but I forgot to ask about street rollers.

Jim, do you remember any more details?
Dan Jones

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-25-2003 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
havnt i heard of some kind of oiling problem on the dist gear on a 251w??

[This message has been edited by capri man (edited 04-26-2003).]

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-25-2003 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MattN,

I have about 4000 miles on my XR274R-10 roller so far and haven't seen any changes in the timing or anthing else unusual. This is a 351W cam in a 302 block. I run an old stock distributor and also a stock type blueprinted oil pump. I have turned it over 7000 just a few times but it sees 6000 rpms on a regular basis. Maybe there's something your overlooking that is causing it. How often is it eating the gear??

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
2nd pass: 12.11 @ 114 mph (7.80 @ 92 mph)
DanH

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futurattraction
Gearhead

Posts: 106
From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-26-2003 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for futurattraction   Click Here to Email futurattraction     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There was a very lengthy discussion over on the Network54 board about problems with 351 (both W and C) distributor gears getting chewed. Here's the link, if you're interested in reading it...
Best wishes!
Scott
___________
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=119419&messageid=1050630597

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 945
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-26-2003 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
>

Jim Sams was telling me about a guy on the 351C forum that was also
eating gears and finally solved it with a special Mallory gear.
Mallory lists two replacement gears. The more expensive gear is
aluminum/bronze for use with steel roller cams. The cheaper one is
is listed as machined from "alloy steel", heat treated to give the
proper hardness when used with "proferal billet camshafts". The
phone tech claims the "alloy steel" is the one to use with cast iron
flat tappet cams but I forgot to ask about street rollers.

Jim, do you remember any more details?
Dan Jones


Mallory makes a special geat for their distributors that is specially made for "austempered ductile iron billets" and "Proferal billet" cams.
Now I do not know if this is the standard off the shelf gear or not. I will have to find this out soon however as I am swapping to a (nearly free) Hyd roller setup.
Also be aware that Steve Grossen found out that "Pep Boys" distributor gears are not the same hardness as OEM Ford gears.
A guy on the Cleveland forum had trouble with OEM iron gears and went to the Mallory "Austempered" gear and problems went away.
As far as HV pumps go, I have one also but my gear wear on teh faild Isky cam looked fine.
I may go to the std pump with the moroso spring now though.


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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-26-2003 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My bro-in-law and I rebuilt his SB chebbie and reused the exact same flat hydraulic cam and billet distributor that was in the motor before the rebuild. The only changes made to the valve train were new springs and 1.5 to 1.6 rockers. A new HV oil pump was also installed. To make a long story short.. 4 lobes and the cam and the distributor gear wiped out immediately after 5 minutes. We never found out WHY for sure. We think that the one bad lifter and a wiped lobe possibly started the whole process by contaminating the oil. After that, it was all over but the crying.

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
2nd pass: 12.11 @ 114 mph (7.80 @ 92 mph)
DanH

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