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  Figured out low oil pressure problem in 351C.....and spun a rod bearing!

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Author Topic:   Figured out low oil pressure problem in 351C.....and spun a rod bearing!
'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-15-2003 08:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This past weekend I was teaching a Pontiac Firehawk about the merits of a Ford 351C’s power potential when I came up to the light after the “test & tune “ session and heard a clattering sound. I really didn’t over rev the engine and I have a rev limiter in any event. I limped home with my clattering engine speculating what could have gone wrong and come to find that I spun a rod bearing.

Well, this engine had always had very low oil pressure I put it together last summer, and I could never figure out why. I knew the bearing clearances were right, I had a blue printed oil pump and 6-quart pan so I was confused when this bearing went but knew it was related to the oil pressure problem. I called the guy who grinds my cams and was telling him about my problem and after about 10 minutes of chatting he asks me, just as an after-thought, “You did put those solid roller lifters in the right way, didn’t you?” I replied, “Is there a wrong way?” Needless to say I just learned that solid roller lifters with the link-bar have a right way and wrong way to be installed and all the oil pressure was being diverted up top and away from the rod and main bearings because of it.

One crank kit coming up! Live and learn. I guess it could have been worse.


------------------
'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb intake, ported 4-v quench heads, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 4.30 gears 9" rear
-------------------------

12.51 1/4 mile @ 115.89
60 foot time 2.008 (ouch)

[This message has been edited by '69Stang (edited 04-15-2003).]

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2003 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
'69Stang,
I feel for your loss & appreciate the fact that you shared your learning experience with the rest of us.....

"Now, for the rest of the story"....

Just what IS the correct way to install solid roller lifters outfitted with a link bar?

Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
In a '69 FB w/ 4-spd'd 306",
but the 460+ is on the stand!

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1254
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-15-2003 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have done alot with solid roller camshafts. I am curious to know which way you had these lifters installed. Tie-bar facing the block, or facing the lifter valley. As far as I know, depending on who's lifters you used, even if you did flip them it wouldnt matter. Mind you, I personally have not done alot with a cleveland.

I am concerned that there might be another problem somewhere.

Im sure when dad gets going online, he can elaborate more for us on what else might be out of line, if anything. I am always looking to learn more about these motors anyway! =)

------------------
Tony Denysenko
O-P/SA 5302 IHRA Stock Eliminator
H-I/FA 3302 NHRA Stock Eliminator
MoneyMaker Racing

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 788
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-15-2003 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always put them in with the tie bar facing up/ towards the valley. Never a problem. Thats with Comp Cams and Herbert roller lifters.

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1460
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-15-2003 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always install the linkbar towards the heads. I'm running a stock oilpump on the 331 roller motor and have 40 psi @ hot idle, 65 psi max using 10W30. Sorry to hear your mishap.

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
2nd pass: 12.11 @ 114 mph
DanH

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 800
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-15-2003 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a difference. When I first put my Cleveland together, I had the link bars towards the block. I was priming the engine with an electric drill with the valve covers and intake off. I could see hugh amounts of oil being pumped past the lifters into the lifter valley. After talking to the manufacturer, I turned the lifters around, towards the valley and did the same test and it worked. No more oil leakage.

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-15-2003 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad to hear the confirmation that putting them in backwards really does effect the PSI. My supplier was emphatic about that. The oil pressure was always very low at idle and then would rise as the RPM's came up under normal operation, but never over 30 PSI at best. AT idle it would get as low as 5-10 PSI

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2003 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by '69Stang:
My supplier was emphatic about that.

....but was he emphatic enough to contribute toward the cost of the necessary new crank kit???

What brand of lifter were you running?

Did the instructions specify just how to install them? If not, I'd think that the supplier and/or manufacturer would be more than just emphatic.............

Ryan

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-15-2003 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:
....but was he emphatic enough to contribute toward the cost of the necessary new crank kit???

What brand of lifter were you running?

Did the instructions specify just how to install them? If not, I'd think that the supplier and/or manufacturer would be more than just emphatic.............

Ryan


Good point.....I honestly don't remember if there were any instructions or not and it seemed like a no-brainer when installing them. Unfortunately I ended up being the "no-brainer" if you know what I mean.....

------------------
'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb intake, ported 4-v quench heads, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 4.30 gears 9" rear
-------------------------

12.51 1/4 mile @ 115.89
60 foot time 2.008 (ouch)

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-15-2003 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess experience is the best teacher

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2003 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would consider that a "minor" mishap. Every time I have spun a bearing, it ended up with stuff trying to get out of the block. And by stuff, I mean rods.

How bad did it tear up the crank? I would think at the worst new crank and maybe a rod or two would fix the problem.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2003 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by '69Stang:
Good point.....I honestly don't remember if there were any instructions or not and it seemed like a no-brainer when installing them. Unfortunately I ended up being the "no-brainer" if you know what I mean.....

If I were you, I wouldn't beat myself up too much,,,especially IF you didn't have any directions telling you how to install them in a particular manner.

I understand that most race equipment doesn't carry much of a warranty on parts after it's been run, however, it seems like most things do have somewhat decent directions on the INSTALLATION of their parts...... You may want to take a look at the manufacturers web site or look in the box of their lifter set at your local Speed Shop,,,,if you can't find any directions, then maybe a letter to the manufacturer is in order. They may just thank you for pointing out their "direction deficiency" and send you a discount coupon toward the purchase of a second set - who knows...

Just my 2 cents,
Ryan

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2003 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't feel too badly. I had instructions with my roller lifters, but they werent very clear. So, I called the local high performance machine shop and asked them, otherwise it's hard to say if I would have gotten them right either.

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2160
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-15-2003 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't know there was more than one way to install roller lifters. So I learned something here. Every motor I have ever seen/built had them installed with the LINK bars facing each other towards the oil galley. IS this correct for all 351C's? or does this differ for each roller manufacturer?

------------------
Jerry
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
Jimmy: ( S-10 driver/friend ) Hey Jer how do you like my flames I painted on the old Bowtie?
Jerry: Nice but you didn't have to do that, if you ever get it going fast enough at the strip it'll catch fire.

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-16-2003 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All in all not such a bad problem, as KV pointed out at least the rod isn't sticking out of the block!

------------------
'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb intake, ported 4-v quench heads, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 4.30 gears 9" rear
-------------------------

12.51 1/4 mile @ 115.89
60 foot time 2.008 (ouch)

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jim1320
Gearhead

Posts: 133
From: white plains, maryland, usa
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-16-2003 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jim1320   Click Here to Email jim1320     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry to hear about your motor didnt know about the lifter?? i am new here but enjoy the reading . jim1320

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-29-2003 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Update: one spun rod bearing on #3 cylinder and upon visual inspection from a very knowledgeable source (thanks Alex) it looks like a minor resurface job on the crank will get me back in action. Unfortunately I will have to remove the motor and clean everything so it is like a complete rebuild in a way. PIA.

The silver lining is that I found that I need a new timing chain and it gives me the chance to put in a bigger roller cam…..

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N266fords
Gearhead

Posts: 1039
From: Spokane ,WA USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-29-2003 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for N266fords   Click Here to Email N266fords     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry to haer about the bearing but you saved the block great save and I would like to thank you for sharing that info as i am installing a roller cam with stock type rollers from a 92 5.0 with the spider and dog bones but you have me thinking (bad thing) lol I do thank you and wish you the best on the next build up Bruce

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-29-2003 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Appears to be a rod sizing issue. Fortunatly, the crank was not hurt too bad.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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