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Author Topic:   Alchohol injection question
Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 04-14-2003 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I spent the week-end getting ready for the first time trial session next week-end. I ran the motor once on Sat. for about 20 minutes and again yesterday about the same duration. Yesterday I ran on gas for about the last 10 minutes to warm it up good and dry it out, hopefully. I got the temp up to about 180 before I shut it off.

Tonight I removed the valve covers to check valve lash and found the rocker area drenched with beads of water. I left the breathers off yesterday trying to avaoid that.

I realize that alky draws moisture, but this seemed like an awful lot. The cooling system is fine, no loss of water at all. Its got to be condensation.

My only experience with this is KVs alky carb. and it doesn't draw near this much. I've thought this motor was a bit fat but I'm not prepared to mess with that till I see exhaust temps at the track.

Speaking of exhaust temps, I was getting about 350 - 360 degrees at idle at about 1600 RPM. When I switched to gas the temps went up 500 degrees.

Is this normal? If so, I'll learn to live with it. If not, what should I check? The motor sounds great. It started right up even though the timing was a bit off, and sounded super once that was corrected.

Any comments?

Thanks

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63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-15-2003 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Opinions are like arm pits, you will have to sort thru the smelly ones. Here is mine. Since you are running mechanical injection you will have more moisture in the oil than a carb or the injectorator stuff as you have to run fat at idle due to not having an accelerator pump to avoid the bog. I lean my stuff till it just stumbles when I hit the throttle then fatten it up till it just will take it when I matt it. I run a vacuum pump to draw off the moisture. This helps a bunch and anything will work for you. Alot of people are using 12 volt pumps from certain OEM applications with good results.
Hope this helps some,
Mark J

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http://home.usaa.net/~johnson403

[This message has been edited by S/Q 2204 (edited 04-15-2003).]

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-15-2003 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't found a 12V pump that will pull over 5 inchs of vacuum yet, supposedly you need about 15 or so I'm told.
I guess that water condensation is normal. I have always dealt with it. It doesn't hurt anything. I let mine gather in the oil pan then before I crank it or a day or so after I park it I pull the plug and let the water run out till it shows oil. Every alky injected motor I have ever run did this. None of the alky carbed motors I have run did this. I think it is just like Mark said. I know a guy that has a motor heater and he uses this to help get rid of the water after the race. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I freaked when I first saw it too, now I guess I'm sued to it. LOOKS NASTY HUH? LOL

------------------
Jerry
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
Jimmy: ( S-10 driver/friend ) Hey Jer how do you like my flames I painted on the old Bowtie?
Jerry: Nice but you didn't have to do that, if you ever get it going fast enough at the strip it'll catch fire.

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-15-2003 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my short time having a Toilet I have been told/discovered a few things that help the problem. Mine is not the best looking oil now, but it's far better than when I started tuning it. At first it was bad enough that you could see the "milk" on the dipstick when you checked the oil. Now the dipstick looks fine, you can only see it when you drain the pan.

1. I bought a leakdown tester to set the barrel valve. Much more accurate than setting it by ear. Ron's says either use the snap throttle test to set it or set it with a leak down tester. When I set it by ear and then checked it with the tester I had leakdown at 36%. Ron's says use 28-30%. Mine is currently set at 26% per some advice from the distributor I bought mine from. This helped more than anything.

2. I use the fuel shutoff as a leanout all the time. It is always pulled about 1/2 way out to the "sweet spot" when driving in the pits, staging or return road. Bypasses most of the alky back to the cell. I push it in as a leave staging to do a burnout. Pull it back out as soon as I'm off the track.

3. Mine is better when I actually run it on the track vs idle/tuning time, even if the temps are the same. I think that's due to the header evacs. I know one guy that heats his up before final shut down, pulls the v/c breathers and then sticks a shop vac hose into one side and lets it vac for 10 minutes. Says it helps. I'm gonna try it.

Later,
David Cole

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FALCOMANIA
Journeyman

Posts: 37
From: Opelika Ala USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-15-2003 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FALCOMANIA   Click Here to Email FALCOMANIA     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark how long on the bad bird?

Randy

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 04-15-2003 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I drained the oil last night and left the pan under the motor till tonight. It seemed like there was an awful lot of oil and very thin. I'm thinking there was alky in it.

I did know about the leanout by pulling the fuel shut off part way. I frankly didn't think of that. I imagine that made my oil pretty contaminated. I'll avoid that mistake again.

The oil I drained didn't look too bad. Just a little milky, but almost water thin and for 10W-40 that seemed strange. Maybe all that running full rich at idle was the cause.

I'm also thinking that you don't run these things just for fun. I won't start mine now till probably Thurs. night when I load it. I need to check the timing one more time, but I can do that then.

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63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-15-2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The fuel shutoff also helps the motor heat up faster on cold/cool days. I set my barrel valve today. It was only a couple off. 32% I set it for 30% which is close. I'll have to make a pass or two to determine if the pill is right yet. I have a "100" in it now. Do any of you guys run a high speed bypass? I been thinking about getting an RPM activated one fron Ron's.

JS

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S/Q 2204
Journeyman

Posts: 93
From: Ozark, AL(again after a year of being deployed)
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-16-2003 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S/Q 2204   Click Here to Email S/Q 2204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randy,
I am down to building the headers & the 4.5" U bend made it here today so I guess I will get to that soon. After this I think all that is left is freshening the engine & setting it up as a vacuum pump engine VS just having one hung on it to combat the moisture. I fugure I will let Scott & David crow a little while then come out & show who the power broker is LOL.

Jerry,
Yes to the high speed. We run one off a RPM switch hooked to a N2O purge valve with a pill in it. I personally don't think much of it but automatic guys say it helps them when they are up on the convertor.

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http://home.usaa.net/~johnson403

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 04-16-2003 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A local racer buddy has 2 leanouts on his BBC. One is what he calls a converter helper. It activates with the transbrake. The idea is to lean it out while on the 2 step.

The other is high gear activated.

The high gear one seems to work for him as his car is consistently quicker and faster than similar cars with bigger motors without the bypass. He also has his injector nozzles turned around facing into the airflow.

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-16-2003 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On a side note, I am just begining to learn about this ALKY injection stuff. right when I had my toliet almost figured out I decided to switch to a hat. New leearning curve. I just learned today that I don't have a high speed lean out like I thought I did. the thing I was calling a hi speed lean out is a secondary bypass valve. You live you learn. Maybe It'll run better now that I know what it is. heck it was running good b4 so I thought. I guess ignorance really is BLISS.
JS

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