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Author Topic:   Converter Hurt?
Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 788
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-13-2003 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you guys or anyone else think? I think my converter is going out.

It's a 9" soft hit. Steel Stator CCX 200+. It's almost new. Has 18 passes on it. 13 full passes and 5 partials when I was getting used to the car. Its a glide converter with a turbo shaft. It's in my Undercover slipjoint 225" dragster with a 557" BBF. Running a single toilet w alky. Weighs 1830 w driver.

It has suddenly lost 3 tenths (a full tenth in the 60' ) and over 9 mph.

Best times were last weekend 4.96 @ 139.99. 1.12 60' Made a couple of runs like that. On my last run it slowed to 5.19 @ 134 w 1.19 60'. I blamed it on a leaking throttle stop not letting the throttle open all the way. Was using the throttle stop only as a starting line control. Removed the throttle stop this week. Today at the track it slowed even more. First pass was an aborted run due to oil on track from previous car but it went a 1.199 60'. Next pass was 5.26 @ 131 w 1.21 60'. The engine seems to check out. No change in lash, timing checked at the same (36) oil pressure the same (75 psi) egt is the same (1105). Checked the toilet filter, was ok Not smoking, no funny sounds, etc. Trans fluid looks and smells normal. Trans spins freely. Started it up with tires off the ground. Can shut it off running in low or high and the wheels keep turning for a long while.

I unplugged the 2 step and tested the stall speed. It was down about 700 rpm over what it would do before. I checked it before I ever made a pass a few weeks ago and it went to about 6100. I posted on this forum worried that it might be too high. The consensus was to try it. The car really liked it. Tonight it only went to 5300 on the first try and 5400 on the 2nd try (was straining to go 5400).

To summarize:

lost 3 tenths in ET
lost 1 tenth of that in the 60'
lost over 9 mph
gets slightly worse each pass
lost 700 rpm stall speed

Is my converter going - gone?

Opinions?

Thanks,
David Cole

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-13-2003 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like it rolled over the sprag in the converter Dave. No chip and no stall, usually indicates rolled over sprag.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-13-2003 08:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are certain you didn't drop a hole?
Bad plug, wire, cap?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-13-2003 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

It does sound like the convertor is going away doesn't it. That would be my guess also.

Also, most of the guys I ran with in Iowa liked to see their EGT around 1200. They claimed it made the car way more consistent that way. KK's brother is finding out his is also more consistent the closer to 1200 he gets. Just an FYI, not really related to your problem (it wont slow it down near that much being a little fat).

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-13-2003 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I see Alex answered right before I did and as usuall, he's probably right. I seem to remember a buddy of mine rolling the sprag over and his car did the same thing you described yours did.(actually did it at least wice that I can remember). He has a 555 bbc that made 945 hp on the dyno with one gas dominator (yours should be at least as much hp and probably more torque,) and he now uses a spragless convertor.

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 788
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-13-2003 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really went into it today. I checked all the injector nozzles. None were plugged. I could blow through them with my mouth.

I pulled the engine oil pan. Everything looked great. Zero metal shavings, dust, etc. Just a little water condensation from the alky. I don't think I have an engine problem. No metal in pan, unchanged oil pressure and egt, no change in valve lash or timing, no plugged fuel filter or injectors. All cylinders are firing, no mis or skip and no smoke or funny noises.

Pulled the trans and converter. Couldn't tell much about it from outside. Seemed like the fluid from the converter had a little metallic look to it. Pulled the trans pan. Normal amount of clutch dust and a few small flecks of aluminum? (they wouldn't stick to a magnet) Going to call the converter co in the morning. I hope they can help me out. Technically their warranty is 30 days starting from the first time it's run. It has been 35 days today. It started going away last weekend at 28 days.

Thanks for all the help so far.

David Cole

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 788
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-18-2003 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was the sprag in the converter. I pulled it and shipped it back to BTE. They cut it open and found the problem. Wasn't broken, but was slipping. They said they would balance this sprag before they installed it. Everything else would be the same. No charge to fix it. They repaired it under warranty. I only had to pay for shipping. BTE is a class act. It's a big relief knowing the problem was in the converter and not the engine.

Now maybe I can tune on this thing. Looking for some low 4.90's, maybe even a 4.8X. I think it's in it. Just have to find it. Bets of 4.96 so far. The toilet is close, but I haven't played with the timing, lauch or shift rpms yet.

Thanks for the help.

David Cole

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-18-2003 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I meant by "rolling the sprag over" David.
It's a common problem with powerslides behind high HP engines.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 788
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 04-18-2003 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
It's a common problem with powerslides behind high HP engines.

What high HP engines? Ain't seen none of them round here.

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2160
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-18-2003 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those of you who may not know ( I'm sure David does )
BTE is owned by Bill Taylor, one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. The same one who started TCI, & owned the Super Duster funny car. He also used to own the old Memphis Lakeland track.
http://lakelandraceway.crosswinds.net/profiles/profiles_bill_taylor.htm
He is always glad to stop and talk to anyone.

The BTE shop is located about an HR from me in Mount Pleasant, MS. It is also the home of Memphis Performance. It is handy to have a GREAT HI performance outlet so close & owned by one of Drag Racing's icons.

------------------
Jerry
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
Jimmy: ( S-10 driver/friend ) Hey Jer how do you like my flames I painted on the old Bowtie?
Jerry: Nice but you didn't have to do that, if you ever get it going fast enough at the strip it'll catch fire.

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