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Author Topic:   Problems, big problems need 427 or 428
ZEATER
Gearhead

Posts: 132
From: Mount Pleasant,IA,USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-18-2003 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ZEATER   Click Here to Email ZEATER     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I rebuilt my engine (428) this year increasing compression to 10.6, changing to solid lifter cam and adding aluminum flywheel.

When the shop internally balanced the crank they did not weld in one of the weights and it let go after 14 miles destroying the crank and block as well as 2 rods. This was the original engine to my 69 Mach.

They are taking responsibility. My decision now is to replace with another 428 block or try to find a 427 and buy new pistons to stroke it to 454 or buy a stroke kit to go to 485 cu in.

The stroke kit is from flatlander and includes a scat cast steel FE crank w/4.250 stroke, pro line/scat H beam rods 6.700 and Venoilia forged F/T pistons. 300.00 more gets you oliver forged rods.

I have no experience with flatlander or the parts above.

I guess I'm looking on opinions on whether to go with the 427 or 428 and if anyone has had experience with flatlander or these parts.

Thanks,

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-18-2003 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That sux.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any FE guys in Iowa, or any guys with any FE stuff laying around.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-18-2003 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A good friend of mine dumped his 428 block because he couldn't get it to stop leaking coolant at the end cylinders....so went with a 427 block and his 428 crank (=454 cid) then added in an overbore to the 427 giving him 488 cid.
......I'd go with the 427 block.

It's my understanding that Oliver rods are "top shelf" rods. If you plan to dragrace your car, I'd go with the Olivers.... If it's just a street car (no slicks), then I'd say the H-beams would be fine.

I've heard good things about Flatlander, but have not dealt with them myself.

Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
In a '69 FB w/ 4-spd'd 306",
but the 460+ is on the stand!

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 37258
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2003 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, man! Sorry to hear that! I hope the guy feels like an ass. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

Please remember our sponsors,
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 37258
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2003 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know this guy, but here's a 428 from our Classifieds:

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/002620.html

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

Please remember our sponsors,
Mustangs Plus, NPD, Osborn Reproductions, MyFordPerformance.com, and FordRamAir.com

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 717
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 03-18-2003 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That really sucks Zeater,a matching # engine gone because of someone not paying attention.Good Luck hunting for a block.

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 575
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 03-18-2003 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When the shop internally balanced the crank they did not weld in one of the
weights and it let go after 14 miles destroying the crank and block as well
as 2 rods. This was the original engine to my 69 Mach.

> They are taking responsibility. My decision now is to replace with
> another 428 block or try to find a 427 and buy new pistons to stroke
> it to 454 or buy a stroke kit to go to 485 cu in.

Genesis (317-733-1695) is supposedly delivering cast iron 427 blocks now.
Quite a bit more expensive than a used 428 block though at $2995 for iron
and $3995 for aluminum.

> The stroke kit is from flatlander and includes a scat cast steel FE
> crank w/4.250 stroke, pro line/scat H beam rods 6.700 and Venolia
> forged F/T pistons. 300.00 more gets you oliver forged rods.

That's a long stroke, same as in one of my 427 strokers. Whether or
not Olivers are worth the extra $$$ is probably a function of how
fast you plan to spin the engine but, given the cost of all the other
parts, $300 extra for the good rods might be worth it. Crower also
makes a good FE rod.

> I guess I'm looking on opinions on whether to go with the 427 or 428
> and if anyone has had experience with flatlander or these parts.

Flatlander sells parts of all sorts. They don't specialize in FE's,
so don't expect them to know what works or doesn't. Do your homework
on the parts and then figure out where to order them from. You might
try the FE Forum at:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/74182

I lurk there and some of the forum members have had their hands on
the SCAT cranks and Genesis blocks so might have some relevant input.

> A good friend of mine dumped his 428 block because he couldn't get
> it to stop leaking coolant at the end cylinders....

What was the cause? Was it a passenger car or CJ/SCJ block?

> so went with a 427 block and his 428 crank (=454 cid)

A standard bore 427 block and a standard stroke 428 crank yield 448 cubes
(rounded to the nearest whole integer).

> then added in an overbore to the 427 giving him 488 cid.

A 0.030" overbore will get you to 454 cubes. 488 cubes would take a
bore a bit greater than 4.4", assuming a 3.98" stroke (428 crank). IIRC,
bore centers on an FE are only 4.63". No Ford 427 block will take a 4.4"
bore but Genesis claims there Siamese bore iron block will go to 4.44".
It's easier to get those cubes from stroking. An offset ground crank
428 crank and 400 rods will go out to 474 cubes in a 427 block. My 486
cube FE uses a custom 4.25" crank (not SCAT) in an 0.030" over 427 block.
Genesis is also working on a 4.125" stroker crank.

Dan Jones

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 642
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-18-2003 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.racingjunk.com/viewclassifiedad.jsp?id=52006

This is an ad on racingjunk.com I found tonight.

Have no idea if any of this will help, but you never know.

There is a guy in Georgia, I think that has a whole pile of Boss 429 stuff too.

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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Stephen & Horace Johnson
Gearhead

Posts: 103
From: Gadsden, AL
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-19-2003 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen & Horace Johnson   Click Here to Email Stephen & Horace Johnson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Zeater


We have a 428 crankshaft and 2-3sets of 427 rods that we are not goin to use..if you want email me at [email protected]

------------------
Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
NHRA-IHRA SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane (Ex-Van Cleve)
1985 Mustang FFW True Street 11.86 @115mph (N/A)

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-19-2003 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
"... A good friend of mine dumped his 428 block because he couldn't get it to stop leaking coolant at the end cylinders...."

-- What was the cause?
RE: I don't recall that he was able to determine what was the problem....

-- Was it a passenger car or CJ/SCJ block?
RE: I can't say for sure... He's been racing his '69 Mach for over 20yrs now and has had the engine out & apart a 'few' times.....

"...so went with a 427 block and his 428 crank (=454 cid)....then added in an overbore to the 427 giving him 488 cid."

-- An offset ground crank 428 crank and 400 rods will go out to 474 cubes in a 427 block.... My 486 cube FE uses a custom 4.25" crank (not SCAT) in an 0.030" over 427 block. 488 cubes would take a bore a bit greater than 4.4", assuming a 3.98" stroke (428 crank). Dan Jones


RE: It's seems likely that my recollection of the method in which my friend got to 488" may of been twisted. Sorry for the confusion. Bottomline is: I do recall that he had problems with his 428 leaking and he ended up using a 427 block and is at 488" now.

Ryan

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popeye
Gearhead

Posts: 124
From: midwest USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-19-2003 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for popeye   Click Here to Email popeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
question for dad vishus...did you find fiberglass body parts for your Falcon?

------------------
This is FORD COUNTRY, where on a quiet night, you can here a chevy rusting

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 642
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-19-2003 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
US body has the Falcon parts.

www.usbody.com

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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E/SA390MUSTANG
Journeyman

Posts: 2
From: Cedarville Ohio
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-19-2003 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E/SA390MUSTANG   Click Here to Email E/SA390MUSTANG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello everyone. I am a new guy here. On the 428/427 blocks, if you can find a good 427 block, it would be the obvious choice. Bad news is a good block will go for around $2500 or so and they usually cannot be over bored much at all. A 428 cj block is great but they are pretty expensive too. You can get a run of the mill 428 block for a little less but the main area does not have the heavy reinforced mains area and they still bring good money. I run a 390 but I use the 391 truck blocks with the mirrored 105. They have the cj webbing and are usually pretty thick(but you need to check them out anyway). I fill by blocks because my engine builder likes to for the rings. Most of these will go to a 4.13 bore pretty easy. I also have an early '64 390 block that has the bosses for the cross bolts like a 427. It will go 4.13 or more very easy and you can machine it for cross bolts. It is a real thick block for whatever reason. Anyway, I would internally balance it. Check with Kuntz and Co or Kieth Craft for parts as well. They have a far more knowledge than most(not to bash Flatlander, Jegs, ect) and the prices are in the ball park. You might consider going to a big block chevy rod journals as well. The rod jourals are real big on an FE and aftermarket chevy rods are cheap. If you are in need of a thick block and want to go 4.13 bore or so, let me know. I am in ohio.
Shawn

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-19-2003 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M E/SA 390 !

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Stephen & Horace Johnson
Gearhead

Posts: 103
From: Gadsden, AL
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-20-2003 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen & Horace Johnson   Click Here to Email Stephen & Horace Johnson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Welcome Shawn.. fello FE'r

------------------
Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
NHRA-IHRA SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane (Ex-Van Cleve)
1985 Mustang FFW True Street 11.86 @115mph (N/A)

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1700
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-20-2003 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M, Shawn!

Let's hear about that E/SA 390 Stang of yours! Maybe get a pic or two on the board too!

FEs are the rock that other FoMoCo Fat Blocks were carved from - way cool to still be running them fast!

Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
In a '69 FB w/ 4-spd'd 306",
but the 460+ is on the stand!

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E/SA390MUSTANG
Journeyman

Posts: 2
From: Cedarville Ohio
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-21-2003 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for E/SA390MUSTANG   Click Here to Email E/SA390MUSTANG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am still working on it. I've always been a bracket racer but I wanted to build a stocker. We've done some testing on heads lately. NHRA is looking at legalizing some 390 edelbrock heads. I got a set from edelbrock to test and was pretty disappointed. My C6AER heads were much better. Anyway, my short block is getting done and I should be on the dyno in a few weeks or so. I built a light weight C-4 for it. I will get a convertor once we are done with the dyno work. I will round up some pics. It is mostly disassemble at the moment because I painted it over the winter. I wanted to lighten it up some too. I am shooting for some 10.80's. FE motors are definately cool. It is neat working on a piece of history and making them fast.
Shawn

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-21-2003 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M, Shawn.

------------------
Rob Hetzler
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, best 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.18 @ 109.9 1/8
'70 mustang, soon to be 351W powered
'93 F150 Lightning 15.33 @ 87 mph, completely stock with 170k miles
'60 Falcon wagon project car
'99 Pro Et track champion
'00 Mod ET R-up (with new car)

My Photo Page

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