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Author
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Topic: If u had a choice, what would u choose?
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stinger
Gearhead Posts: 272
From: mn
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-08-2003 02:56 PM
   
351w or 351c and is a 351cleveland cobra jet block that much better then a standard cleveland and what is a 351 cleveland block with 4v close chambered heads worth? Thanks.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-08-2003 04:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stinger:
what is a 351 cleveland block with 4v close chambered heads worth? Thanks.
The only thing special about that block is the 4v heads. If it's a complete motor, then you have a little more value with the 4v intake, but not much. quote:
Originally posted by stinger:
is a 351cleveland cobra jet block that much better then a standard .
No. No difference. All blocks are just as strong, and the 4 bolt blocks aren't worth the added expense. Some people will claim there are certain blocks with a higher nickel content, but that has never been verified by any reliable source. All blocks are a plaqued by the same thin cylinder walls, and a poor oiling system.
All I have ever ran is 2 bolt main blocks. I have ran 2 bolt blocks that came originally with 2v heads, and even blocks that came with 4v heads. Once I started making good power, I have cracked them all without any block filler in them.  Personally, I love my clevelands. But if I were to start over from scratch, I would build a stroked windsor. Parts are just so much easier to find. And remember, this is all my slightly biased and maybe mis-informed opinion. 
------------------
Rob Hetzler
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, best 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.18 @ 109.9 1/8, 1.319 60'
'70 mustang, flintstone power
'93 F150 Lightning 15.33 @ 87 mph, completely stock with 167k miles
'60 Falcon wagon project car
'99 Pro Et track champion
'00 Mod ET R-up (with new car)
'01 5th place Top ET, 7th place Mod ET My Photo Page
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69_sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 222
From: Camino Calif (yeah, it does snow here)
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-08-2003 05:21 PM
have to agree with kid, bottom end isn't a problem...FILL THE BLOCK. Haven't built a street cleve til now but built quite a few roundy round motors. Just got rotating assy back from being balanced.------------------
ALL THROTTLE NO BOTTLE !
69 sportsroof(351 C)
65 Ranchero(200)now 351W
72 Ln 700 (361)
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69machI
Journeyman Posts: 57
From: nova scotia
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-08-2003 06:20 PM
I also like the Cleveland. They run good, they look good, they like to rev, and they have the 'Cleveland mystique'. But parts are getting expensive and hard to find though. If I was racing, I think I would go for the Windsor.
If you do go for the Cleveland, I noticed that in the Ford Motorsport catalogue that they are clearing out some Cleveland cranks.
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jkilroy
Gearhead Posts: 1808
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 03-08-2003 08:25 PM
Take the Windsor. The blocks are better, and parts are cheaper.------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-08-2003 10:39 PM
Windsor is my vote, unless you have a stockpile of C parts.  SteveW
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clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 1035
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-08-2003 11:39 PM
I'm a Cleveland guy. What can I say?  ------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1542
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-09-2003 11:48 AM
I ran 351 C`s back in the 70`s & I really liked them, but unless you already have a bunch of Cleveland stuff for cores, I think the 351W makes more sense. WAAAY more aftermarket stuff available, & engine cores are very easy to find, as they built them from 69 until recently, where the 351C was only in production from 70-73, so cores are much harder to find. On top of that, if you want the 351C 4V heads, they were only available in 70 & 71, so they are even harder to find. One good thing if you want to buy the 4v heads, the prices are still about the same now as they were in the late 70`s-early 80`s. I sold a pair of 70 4V heads back in 1979 for $300.00, & thats still what you can find them for. Compare that to my 428 Cobra Jet heads I bought in 1976 for $125.00 (I still have them), today it`s not uncommon for these heads to bring $600.-$800. as good cores. Itr`s all supply & demand. As hard as the 351C stuff is too find, not many guys run them anymore. With all the stuff available for the Windsor, plus the lighter weight & more room under the hood, it`s no wonder. However, back in the 70`s-mid 80`s, nobody wanted a 351W. It seemed that half the 69 Mach 1`s in my area had their 351W`s replaced with Clevelands by the late 70`s.Strange, Eh?------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 774
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-10-2003 11:21 AM
I'd go with the windsor as well.The blocks are a dime a dozen,put your money into some good aftermarket heads and your all set.They're also easy to stroke------------------
1968 mustang j-code sprint.13.69@101 306cu.in, stock ported heads,weiand exellerator,650 holley DP,hedman hedders,comp 292 Magnum cam,4-speed,8 inch 4.11 detroit locker http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html
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Scott (69Mach)
Gearhead Posts: 734
From: Walnut Creek, CA USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 03-10-2003 11:25 AM
When folks as what motor I'm running, I get a kick out of saying "it's a Cleveland". They nod and understand. Yeah, it may be more effort to build, but let's face it, our cars are old anyways. Go for the mystique.
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DRAGSTANG351
Journeyman Posts: 67
From: FLORIDA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 03-10-2003 12:01 PM
I think you should go for the 351w you will
have better oiling system and more parts to choose from.kelly
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Tea'sGrabber
Gearhead Posts: 276
From: Seattle, Wash.
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-10-2003 12:10 PM
Windsor!!!!! They're cheaper to build!!! ------------------
Todd 71 Mav Grabber All orig 306 cu.in. Cast Iron heads. Carillo Rods.Best et. 10.71 @ 124 thru the mufflers.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-10-2003 12:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tea'sGrabber:
Windsor!!!!! They're cheaper to build!!!
I don't buy that at all.
Where the Windsor has a significant advantage is here, if you are going to race it every weekend, and make big power, sooner or later, it's going to break (especially a cleveland). Might not be for several years, but it usually happens. You might get lucky and it might not ever happen, but....
If you are running a windsor, it will be much easier to find replacement hard parts. Especially stuff like blocks.
If you run a cleveland and it breaks, now you have a problem unless you have several blocks stashed somewhere. I know, I'm looking all the time for them and most guys that still have some, want what I consider too much money for them. There is a pile of busted cleveland blocks next to my father's garage. I bet there is at least 5 blocks in that pile. All but one of them has big holes in the sides. The one that doesn't, has a big piece of main webbing missing. And that pile is not counting all the sleeves I have had put in blocks. I bet over the years, I have had enough sleeves put in blocks to completely sleeve 3 blocks. If it's a street car, then dis-regard everythign I just said.
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