------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moneymaker:
1) Warm the engine!
2)Follow the firing order!
3)Turning the motor over by hand,Set the intake lash just as the exhaust valve begins to open
Set the exhaust lash just before the intake valve closes.
This the most accurate method and has been endorsed by the SAE since 1953!

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Same way I learned it!!

Boss66

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Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

Will this work for Ronnie and be faster? It is from Tom Monroe's book.
Engine warm.
For a 351. #1 at TDC end of compression stroke: Adjust 1-4-8 intake, 1-3-7 exhaust.
Rotate crank 180 degrees adjust 3-7 intake,2-6 exhaust.
Rotate crank 270 degrees adjust 2-5-6 intake, 4-5-8 exhaust.

You just need degreed tape for your balancer.
I've used his formula, for a 289 not this one, for years with no problems.

quote:

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Originally posted by lawless:
Same way I learned it!!

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The method that Alex posted is a little more time consuming, but more accurate. The other methods work fine, but there is a better chance that you can get a couple that are not right where you want them to be. I tend to err towards perfection on my race car...

One other helpful hint...

I normally will put a mark with a sharpie on the rocker arm after I adjust it.... In case I get side tracked I won't forget where I am and have to start over

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Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

You can do it one of ten different ways.

The way I posted is THE most ACCURATE method!
If you follow the method on the Mopar chart, then check it the SAE way immidiatley afterwards it WILL be off.
I'm sure that most of you have your own method that you are comfertable with and have been doing it the same way for years. The 90 degree method may be quicker and faster to some.
For me the SAE method is second nature and with a shaft system I can run my valves hot in less than 20 minutes valve covers on to off.
I learned about the SAE method in school 30 some odd years ago and I stick with it.
I have tried every other method as a test and followed up with the SAE. I ALWAYS had to make adjustments (minor)and corrections.
When you run .030 to .040 piston to valve clearance as I do then valve lash accuracy becomes critical.
Those SAE guys are pretty smart and you know what? I have yet to prove them wrong!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

------------------
Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moneymaker:
2)Follow the firing order!

---

Hey Alex, any particular reason you have to follow the firing order? Would it hurt to do your method described above except just go down each side of the engine front to back? I followed your exact method by setting the intake lash just as the ex. opens, and setting the ex. lash as the intake valve closes. But I just went from front to back. It took me a while since I had to turn the motor over a lot.

Just wondering...

Erik

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1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

quote:

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Originally posted by Just Strokin:
Lawless.....His method is more accurate?.....I doubt it....

---

Bend a couple of valves on your race car doing it the "other way" and get back to me.

Or do it the "other way" and complain about your cam not "pulling the rpm" you expect it to and get back to me.

Or do it the "other way" and wonder way there is more valve train noise while you are trying to reason to yourself "that doesn't make any sense, because I just adjusted the valvetrain" and get back to me.

Guys, we're talking about race cars here. The "90 degree method" is probably going to be fine for a hydralic cammed street cruiser/part-time drag car that doesn't have tight piston to valve clearance and your shift points are less than 5500.

If I had a solid roller cammed 393, I sure as heck won't be shifting at no stinkin 5500!!!!!

Short of putting on a degree wheel, this is the most accurate method to adjust the valvetrain in the field in a timely manner.

Again, I tend to err on the side of perfection on my race car!!

chris

BTW, what motor do you currently have or have had? I may not be the "record holder" nor the "owner" of this forum nor have a 9000rpm motor, but I have had my my share of high lift, high horse motors. And I am currently building another high lift, high horse motor for my Fairlane. So, tell me in your own words, why the other method won't work, why i'll bend valves, etc. I'll even let you get a camshaft and the firing order so you can see where the lobes are when you are at 0*, 90*, 180*, 270*, 360*, 450*, 540*, 630*, 720* of rotation of the camshaft. Come back and tell me that when one intake lifter is 180* from the nose of the lobe, you don't have one exhaust lifter also 180* from the nose of that lobe.

------------------
Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

How many revolutions of a V8, 6 or 4 cylinder does it take for all cylinders to have fired once?

Now folks, no helping Chris.

------------------
Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Heh, heh, heh.....I'll just keep quiet.

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MEEEEE TOOOOO..... LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by rockafellz:
Hey Alex, any particular reason you have to follow the firing order? Would it hurt to do your method described above except just go down each side of the engine front to back? I followed your exact method by setting the intake lash just as the ex. opens, and setting the ex. lash as the intake valve closes. But I just went from front to back. It took me a while since I had to turn the motor over a lot.

Just wondering...

Erik

---

------------------
69 fairlane 351w 12.94@103mph before M&M.. after??
always in search of more HP and faster ET'S

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Strokin:
Chris, Chris....i see you have had the wool over your eyes too long.

---

Larry,

you and I are going have to agree to disagree on this one....

As for what do I own or what have I worked on in the past? Is it really that important to you??? I will say that I have performed this procedure on enough race engines to give advice on this topic.

have a nice day.

chris

quote:

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As for what do I own or what have I worked on in the past? Is it really that important to you??? I will say that I have performed this procedure on enough race engines to give advice on this topic.

---

Oh, excuse me, maybe I should have bowed to the gods of the forum, huh.

If it weren't for the ego's of some of the people here like you, Chris and Alex, this place would be no fun to read and watch the way you guys try to lead the sheep to slaughter.

I guess that some guys got it and some guys don't!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

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Originally posted by Fstln69:
Well i figured alex had this covered way early but thought i would reply to this.Yeah that is the long way of doing it and the way i do.Over the years i have found that going front to back i NEVER miss a rocker and with a bump button it takes minutes to run a side.

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This is the way I do it too, and I use the starter.

Oh darn, I was gonna stay out of this.

SteveW

One thing about Alex's way is its easy to remember, if you can just remember to adjust the intake as the exhaust opens and adjust the exhaust as the intake closes you will have it. Easy to remember.

However the way Larry suggested saves time, less turns of the crank, they are both the same, study the geometry of an engine.

This isn't my first rodeo either.

Folks I don't know everything and there are alot of posts that I don't even post to. Many of the SBF posts I just look at and say cool, wow or something like that. Because I can't really offer anything to it.

That being said, it is also true that if I do speak up about it, like I am now, you can pretty well take it to the bank. MOST of the time, not always, everyone can learn something. No one is infallable.

I respect everyone's knowledge here. Steve L amazes me with his knowledge of OEM parts. Steve66 amazes me with the times slips from his daughter's ride. KV amazes me and the competition, I wish my 351C would have ran like his does now. There are many more much too numerous to mention here.

Alex is a GREAT source for info on MANY subjects. Larry is too. The man KNOWS BBF's
NONE of us are so smart that we can't Learn SOMETHING. I have learned many things by reading some of these posts. I hope someone got a little bit of useful info from me. just maybe.

Seriously, folks just because Larry does it a different way does not make him wrong.
Chris, I hate to say it but Larry did challenge you to prove him wrong and you couldn't or wouldn't.
Instead it became personal or so it seemed. I probably would have answered him if I thought I was right. I would have taken a chance on him proving me wrong. That's how you learn.

Don't defend Alex just because he is who he is. He is big enough to fight his own battles. He has a national record and this is an accomplishment. Doesn't make him God.

It does make him a VERY knowledgable racer and a good source for advice. I've learned a thing or two from the OLD guy
His accomplishments prove his ability. We all have abilities, some are more obvious than others.

Why can't we all TRY several methods. Check things out for yourself. Learn from your/our own mistakes, this is how you REALLY learn from experience. I've been racing since I was 15 and I'm 40 now and not a day goes by that I don't learn something.

Alex doesn't tell you EVERYTHING he knows. If he did he wouldn't be a record holder very long. I keep a few secrets to myself. ANY Savvy racer does this.

LORD knows ANYONE can give advice on the internet. H*LL b4 Steve banned him Brandon had folks pulling their heater cores to get to their camshafts, it was hilarious. or at least I thought so.

Be friendly. I know I can be a smart a$$ sarcastic SOB at times but that's just my dry humor. Some appreciate it some don't. I seldom mince words thats just me. I don't mean anything by it. I'd be the first to apologize if someone was upset about something.

This is why I sincerely hope no one is offended by this post. I dont care about being politically correct, I just would like to see us all post in a friendly manner instead of a competitive argumentative manner.

One good motto is NOT to SWEAT the PETTY stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff Good DAY

fellow racer, student and sometimes butt head,

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Strokin:
Oh, excuse me, maybe I should have bowed to the gods of the forum, huh.

If it weren't for the ego's of some of the people here like you, Chris and Alex, this place would be no fun to read and watch the way you guys try to lead the sheep to slaughter.

I bid you all a good day and a good night......Steve, you may delete my acount/user name if you like.....

---

Larry,

Please reconsider! I'm surprised that a little disagrement like this would run you off. Hell this is the racing forum and all of us are competitive or else we wouldn't race! Please don't take your views or others competitively. Like I said earlier there is no one way to adjust your valves as long as you do it. I like your method as well as mine, but mine works for me. See how dumb this argument is? I hope so. You've offered a ton of great advice and I for one hope you contine to. You know what you're talkin about and so does Alex. So that's all I have to say. Keep posting dude!

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsracingbbf:

Chris, I hate to say it but Larry did challenge you to prove him wrong and you couldn't or wouldn't.

---

Jerry and the rest:

I'm not here to start flame wars... and I wasn't trying to defend Alex's honor...

Quite honestly, I had started writing my response, got called away, came back to it, finished it and posted it without checking other responses. If I had looked and saw that Alex had replied again before I made my post, I probably would have changed it or not posted at all. Yes it does look like I was being "Alex's mocking bird" in the context that it ended up in.

I didn't check, so it is my fault for allowing the negative tone of this thread to prosper. I apologize to everyone for that.

As far as trying to "prove someone wrong"... my choice on that matter is "wouldn't" This thing was escalating to a place that I never intended and there was no sense, in my opinion, in taking it any further. If you want to explain to me why I'm wrong on something, feel free. I may disagree, but I will not take it personal. This ain't my first rodeo either, and I am far from having the answer for everything.

I do know the difference between good natured competitive banter and just being plain ol' mean spirited.

I apologize to Larry and all for crossing that line.

chris

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Chill out everyone, your honor is not on the line when you post. It's just your opinion and everyone has one or more of those.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Strokin:
Chirs,

How many revolutions of a V8, 6 or 4 cylinder does it take for all cylinders to have fired once?

Now folks, no helping Chris.

---

TWO,
4 strokes....
What do I win?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Strokin:
I bid you all a good day and a good night......Steve, you may delete my acount/user name if you like.....

---

Naw... You're too much fun to read!

Whatever method a guy uses to find base circle is fine to me. I've done it both ways and I prefer the way the Ford shop manual suggests, which is the same as the Mopar graphic above. Ford engineers are members of the SAE too...

About this thread and many others like it that have popped up lately, all I can say is adults can discuss different points of view without having a conniption fit. Why don't we try it like that for a while? This isn't a life or death struggle here.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

None of you posted the method I was taught.

Take off the valve covers, let the engine idle.

Shove the feeler gauge into the gap and drag it back and forth while adjusting the rocker until you feel just a slight drag on the feeler gauge when it is not being smashed by the cam during valve opening.

Do each of the rockers on one bank before switching to the other side.

Shut off the engine and wipe burning hot oil off both your arms, the fender, the garage floor, and the garage wall.

Re-install the rocker arm covers and hope you sell the car before you need another adjustment.

Later on someone invented little clips to put over the rocker arm to keep the spray of oil down to a minimum but you had to sell your car and buy a small block Chevy to use them.

This really is what I was taught. As soon as I heard about rotating the engine by hand I switched and I ain't a goin back.

John

------------------
SCOOP

oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

quote:

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Originally posted by CHIPSBAD67:
i have a question....is it critical to set the valves hot in a hyd. cam motor or is that just farting in the wind?

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Yep, no one will notice.