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Author Topic:   Ring end gaps
Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 611
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-01-2003 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


I just got back from a week in the Bay Area machining my 460 at my buddy's machine shop, and started putting it back together last night. I'm using a set of Speed-Pro file fit rings and noticed in the instuctions that they are recommending a bigger ring end gap on the second ring than in the past.


I've always gapped my rings at .004" to .0045" per inch of bore on the top and .003" to .0035" per inch of bore on the second ring for an engine that will run on gas and no nitrous. I've always run them at .005" to .006" per inch of bore on the top and .004" to .0045" per inch of bore for my nitrous engines depending on how much jug I planned on putting through it.


In the new instructions I read last night they want the second ring gapped larger than the top! They want .005" to .0055" per inch of bore for a gas/no nitrous combo on the second ring. The explaination is as follows:


NOTE: Most of the 2nd ring gap recommendations are larger than the top rings. Recent testing has proven that a larger 2nd gap increases the top ring's ability to seal combustion. This larger "escape" path prevents inter-ring pressure from building up and lifting the top ring off the piston.


Alex, I'm curious as to what the Stock/SuperStock line of thinking is on this.


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Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone (Broken)
10.271 @ 130.231
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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CAPTAIN CLAMHEAD
Journeyman

Posts: 50
From: DETROIT MI
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-02-2003 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CAPTAIN CLAMHEAD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NEVER SET YOUR RING GAPS TO WIDE OR TO TIGHT.

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IF I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT NOBODY DOES.
GIVE ME A TEST, I'M SIMPLY THE BEST!

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itlbrnmoff
Gearhead

Posts: 1585
From: Indianapolis,IN.USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 03-02-2003 03:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for itlbrnmoff   Click Here to Email itlbrnmoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Clamhead, Why don't you go back to school and learn how to spell rooster fish...you're an idiot...ha ha ha...
BTW, F#ck with me mister, and you'll find yourself sleepin' with the fishes...
Put that in your little pipe and bite down!!

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Low Dollar 1983 Mustang GT W/T-tops...
306 4bbl. T-5 3.45 trac-loc...it'll burn 'em off
1988 Lincoln LSC
5.0 auto full power

[This message has been edited by itlbrnmoff (edited 03-02-2003).]

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D&S Induction Systems
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Columbia Heights Mn U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-02-2003 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D&S Induction Systems   Click Here to Email D&S Induction Systems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HuH?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-02-2003 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since the two self proclaimed experts are proving how much they really know,
I'll throw my 2 cents in.

That sounds fairly reasonable considering all the major engine builders wont use gapless rings due to the exact reasons stated by Speed Pro. When they say lifting, if it's like when gapless rings are used, the gasses get between the ring and the ring land forcing it out, causing the ring to "unseat" from the cylinder wall. Most engine builders refer to this as "ring flutter", and it drasticly kills power as teh ring then can no longer seal affectively. The motor that is currently in my car was put together with both rings gapped the same. On my 4.03 bore cleveland, we set both gaps at .018. We probably should have opened the second one up a little more, but wanted to try it this way and see how it worked. And as you know, theis motor has already ran faster than anything else I have put together. I wont say its all due to the ring gap we used, but it sure had to play into it a little bit.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-02-2003 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.016 to .018 top and .020 to .022 second if we use one.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1238
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 03-02-2003 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, what side effects are there, if any, not using the second ring?

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 03-02-2003).]

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itlbrnmoff
Gearhead

Posts: 1585
From: Indianapolis,IN.USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 03-02-2003 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for itlbrnmoff   Click Here to Email itlbrnmoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry for the infantile outburst folks...

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Low Dollar 1983 Mustang GT W/T-tops...
306 4bbl. T-5 3.45 trac-loc...it'll burn 'em off
1988 Lincoln LSC
5.0 auto full power

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-02-2003 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have found zero power gain with a two ring piston over a properly designed three ring. You save some weight, and you can really tailor the ring groove position.
Major down side is ring life. We get 120-140 runs on a three ring set up and 75-80 with the two.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 611
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-02-2003 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Thanks Alex and KV....and I guess thanks Clamhead too

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone (Broken)
10.271 @ 130.231
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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D&S Induction Systems
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Columbia Heights Mn U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-03-2003 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D&S Induction Systems   Click Here to Email D&S Induction Systems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Since the two self proclaimed experts are proving how much they really know,

Yeah you're right. I dont know squat about engine building. What the heck am I doing in this business any way?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-03-2003 07:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by D&S Induction Systems:
Yeah you're right. I dont know squat about engine building. What the heck am I doing in this business any way?



I found out this morning neither do I. I'm glad I don't do it for a living.

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D&S Induction Systems
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Columbia Heights Mn U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-03-2003 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D&S Induction Systems   Click Here to Email D&S Induction Systems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:

I found out this morning neither do I. I'm glad I don't do it for a living.


I make mistakes too. I'm not perfict. Nobody is. That's what makes us human. If problems or questions come up, I do my reserch and make my best judgement based on the facts I already know. Comebacks are NOT an option. Engines performing not like I promised, are NOT an option. I take this stuff personaly!

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-03-2003 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I NEVER make mistakes!

I'm PERFECT!

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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