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Author Topic:   Ford Crate Motor XE3
thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey just installed a XE3 Motor in my stang, I took it to a dyno shop to get a good tune on it. I came up 40HP short on the motor, it only made [email protected] rpm, ford says that is no problem but I disagree, anybody have any problems with crate motors like this. Calculations put it at 300 rear wheel HP compared to the advertised 340. I have all the right parts on it and the dyno shop could find no obvious problems...

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 701
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-24-2003 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thegabrielles:
Hey just installed a XE3 Motor in my stang, I took it to a dyno shop to get a good tune on it. I came up 40HP short on the motor, it only made [email protected] rpm, ford says that is no problem but I disagree, anybody have any problems with crate motors like this. Calculations put it at 300 rear wheel HP compared to the advertised 340. I have all the right parts on it and the dyno shop could find no obvious problems...

What intake/carb/headers/etc do you have on it?

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stinger
Gearhead

Posts: 112
From: mn
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stinger   Click Here to Email stinger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
where and how much did u purchase your motor if u dont mind me asking.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-24-2003 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M !
If it was a good dyno shop they would have explained it to you.
There are losses through the trans, rear end, tires, etc among other possibilities.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The losses that came up did not add up. Ford quotes 340hp at the flywheel. I came up with 300hp at only 4800rpm, Ford said there would be some additional losses which I uinderstand but I was told 25hp would come from the fact that I have shorty headers instead of long tubes headers, I dont buy that kind of horsep[ower difference with just a long tube header, he told me the figures would be about 15-20hp for accerories, thta I can buy. Interestingly enough I was told the motor would get every bit of the 340 prior to purchasing it. It just seems with the E303 cam and those heads I should be getting more than 250 rear wheel horsepower, after all that is only 25-35hp more thanh the 5.0 got out of the box depending on hp rating system. FOrd quote a 65hp increase for bolting on the heads, I only got 35?

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the cobra intake 65mm throttle body, cobra computer kit w/mass air 24lb injectors, MAC equal lenth headers with H-pipe and 2 1/2 exaust, I bought everything Ford told me I needed for this motor to make it work the way it was designed.

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got it from from Powered by Ford in Orlando, I got it for $2900 by the way, they matched the price of someone locally and I got to skip the taxes for out of state. I ended up getting about everything there so it came to near $4k by the time it was said and done. I purchased everything from the throttle body to the flywheel, except the fuel system which I already had. I researched prices everywhere and they are definitely one of the cheapest, besides 6 days after I ordered it I drove my car to work.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-24-2003 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FoMoCo's figures are based on a race intake and a nice big Holley carb. You'll never get the Cobra EFI to make as much power.
The short headers are also losing about 15 HP.
The 24 lbs injectors are also too much.
You'll make more power with 19 lb injectors and more fuel pressure.
The FRPP crate engines are very close to advertised spec.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I appreciate your help, the motor was nshowing lean at top end with the 24lb injectors, it actually made more horsepower to a point, pressure is set at 39lbs, timing ended up at 16* by the way. I thought the 24lb injectors were only good to aboput 350hp, at least that is what I was told? Ford said they had one motor dyno at 372hp with a carburator so I do agree that could be part of it. but that still leaves me short, I was told to do a compression/ leakdown test to ensure everythiong is right in the motor but I have to figure out what the correct specs will be. Also dont you think 4800rpm is a tad low for that motor to fall on its face? Thanks again..

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 513
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 02-24-2003 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Powered by Ford in Orlando... YIKES

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey just caught that you are from orlando, try Mustangs unlimited in Atlanta for the Tax free option... my home town.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-24-2003 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS, FoMoCo (nor I) does not dyno engines with mufflers.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the help Alex, I will get the leak-down test and stuff done eventually, big thing for me is that the motor is running pretty damn smooth, gets 17mpg puttering to and from work in Atlanta traffic and it damn sure beats the old 205k stock motor I replaced. I have the other car for the real racing, for sale by the way. Its an 82GT with an 86 SVO bottom end 5-lug 4wheel disc koni etc. plus a 351 that ran a [email protected], it weighs 3600lbs so I was happy with the numbers, thats all motor, no juice no blower, and yes it is carburated...the good old fashioned way of making horsepower...

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D&S Induction Systems
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Columbia Heights Mn U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-25-2003 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D&S Induction Systems   Click Here to Email D&S Induction Systems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Alex on this one. HP loss on the drive line and just a plain old poorly set up engine.

This I don't understand though...

"FoMoCo's figures are based on a race intake and a nice big Holley carb. You'll never get the Cobra EFI to make as much power."

-A race intake? Who needs a race intake for only 340 @ 4800rpm?

-I could shure see a Cobra EFI feeding 340 HP? Maby I'm are thnking of a differnt intake set up.

[This message has been edited by D&S Induction Systems (edited 02-25-2003).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-25-2003 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by D&S Induction Systems:

This I don't understand though...

"FoMoCo's figures are based on a race intake and a nice big Holley carb. You'll never get the Cobra EFI to make as much power."

-A race intake? Who needs a race intake for only 340 @ 4800rpm?

-I could shure see a Cobra EFI feeding 340 HP? Maby I'm are thnking of a differnt intake set up.

[This message has been edited by D&S Induction Systems (edited 02-25-2003).]


I consider a Victor Jr. a race intake.
The Cobra induction is an OEM set up and is nothing like the GT-40 induction parts.

Give me a GT-40 deal, a 70mm TB, a DFI, a laptop, and I might be able to get near the 780 Holley/Victor numbers.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-26-2003 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey again, just figured I would check to see if anyone had any more Ideas, THe set-up I have was based on Ford Motorsports suggestion, but I forgot to mention the motor only made 300ft lbs of torque also, That translated into getting beat by a stock 01 GT yesterday, kinda weird, but Ford still says I have all I am going to get out of the motor, 25 hp and no torque increase over a stock 5.0L, that just does not make sense. Any suggestions for would be greatly appreciated.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-26-2003 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you have for a managment system?
Lose the 24 lb injectors for starters.
If you still have your 19 lb injectors put them in and increase the pressure.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-26-2003 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the Cobra kit, Cobra computer 24lb injectors and 64mm mass air came as a kit, 19lb injectors, I know you suggested that the other night, wont that get a tad lean at the top end? I still got 'em and will give them a shot, at this point I have nothing to loose but I am short on cash so I am trying to keep expenses to a minimum.

Thanks

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-26-2003 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thegabrielles:
19lb injectors, I know you suggested that the other night, wont that get a tad lean at the top end? I still got 'em and will give them a shot, at this point I have nothing to loose

Thanks


NO, it won't make it too lean. You don't have enough cylinder head and induction to make use of that much fuel. You probably aren't at 50% duty cycle on the 24's.
INstall the 19's and crank up the FP to about 55lbs to start.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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thegabrielles
Journeyman

Posts: 24
From: Flowery Branch, Georgia USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-26-2003 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thegabrielles   Click Here to Email thegabrielles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks I will give it a shot, 55psi on the 19# injectors... I am 38 on the 24# any higher or lower and I lost power.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-26-2003 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's because you can't get anymore duty cylce out of the 24 lb injectors. You cannot maximize their potintial.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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D&S Induction Systems
Gearhead

Posts: 118
From: Columbia Heights Mn U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-26-2003 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D&S Induction Systems   Click Here to Email D&S Induction Systems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question???

Has anybody tested to see if the thing is even runing too rich/lean yet?

If nothing else you can get those sensors that hook up to you're collector and have a readout meter on the dash.

I would start out by finding out if the thing is runing too rich or lean before buying 1000 differnt injector sizes.

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